FireNet Community
FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Technical Advice => Topic started by: Davro on March 17, 2008, 07:41:34 PM
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The Company I Work For Just Got A Contract With Alot Of Old Fire Alarms On Big Buildings.there Is No One Man Walk Test Or Any Other Functions Apart From The Basics. So My Question Is,is It Alright To Test More Than One Detector On The Same Zone Then Reset The Panel.the Biggest Building Has Twelve Floors With A Seperate Zone On Each Level Which Is Good But Not When It Comes To Testing It. No Elevator In This Place Just Alot Of Steps. I Normanally Test One Detector In Each Zone Then Go Back To The Panel To See If The Zone Light Comes Up Then Reset It.but It Would Be Handy If It Is Alright To Test A Floor At A Time. 50% Service Every 6 Months. Approx 20-25 Detectors In Each Zone.
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http://www.firesense.co.uk/miscella.htm
Maybe this gadget will help?
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Hey very good. Does anybody have one of these and are they any good.
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The Company I Work For Just Got A Contract With Alot Of Old Fire Alarms On Big Buildings.there Is No One Man Walk Test Or Any Other Functions Apart From The Basics. So My Question Is,is It Alright To Test More Than One Detector On The Same Zone Then Reset The Panel.the Biggest Building Has Twelve Floors With A Seperate Zone On Each Level Which Is Good But Not When It Comes To Testing It. No Elevator In This Place Just Alot Of Steps. I Normanally Test One Detector In Each Zone Then Go Back To The Panel To See If The Zone Light Comes Up Then Reset It.but It Would Be Handy If It Is Alright To Test A Floor At A Time. 50% Service Every 6 Months. Approx 20-25 Detectors In Each Zone.
My first enquiry is how long did you take to start every single word with capital letter
My second enquiry is what make you are talking about?
Thirdly If the system is not two wire system why not just remove the fuses of the outputs (sounders, relays) when testing...
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http://www.firesense.co.uk/miscella.htm
Maybe this gadget will help?
Lookis like a good idea but some panels don't like starting up on batteries.
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The Company I Work For Just Got A Contract With Alot Of Old Fire Alarms On Big Buildings.there Is No One Man Walk Test Or Any Other Functions Apart From The Basics. So My Question Is,is It Alright To Test More Than One Detector On The Same Zone Then Reset The Panel.the Biggest Building Has Twelve Floors With A Seperate Zone On Each Level Which Is Good But Not When It Comes To Testing It. No Elevator In This Place Just Alot Of Steps. I Normanally Test One Detector In Each Zone Then Go Back To The Panel To See If The Zone Light Comes Up Then Reset It.but It Would Be Handy If It Is Alright To Test A Floor At A Time. 50% Service Every 6 Months. Approx 20-25 Detectors In Each Zone.
My first enquiry is how long did you take to start every single word with capital letter
My second enquiry is what make you are talking about?
Thirdly If the system is not two wire system why not just remove the fuses of the outputs (sounders, relays) when testing...
that won't reset the system after a device is tested Benzerai
The Firesense unit is okay but ihave found that some panels don't take kindly to it,so i use an apprentice instead to push the reset button.
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The Company I Work For Just Got A Contract With Alot Of Old Fire Alarms On Big Buildings.there Is No One Man Walk Test Or Any Other Functions Apart From The Basics. So My Question Is,is It Alright To Test More Than One Detector On The Same Zone Then Reset The Panel.the Biggest Building Has Twelve Floors With A Seperate Zone On Each Level Which Is Good But Not When It Comes To Testing It. No Elevator In This Place Just Alot Of Steps. I Normanally Test One Detector In Each Zone Then Go Back To The Panel To See If The Zone Light Comes Up Then Reset It.but It Would Be Handy If It Is Alright To Test A Floor At A Time. 50% Service Every 6 Months. Approx 20-25 Detectors In Each Zone.
Since a full test infers that the operation of a detector includes that it indicates on the correct zone on the control panel you have two problems (on non-addressable systems) when testing more than one detector on a zone before reset. 1) Have the subsequent detectors properly operated the control panel that was already operated from the previous detector? 2) If you test a number of detectors in one fire zone and then return to the control panel to find a number of different zone indicators illuminated, how do you know which detector operated which zone?
The best panels are those that have a one-man test facility that pulse the fire bells as a code for which zone has operated (i.e once for zone 1 , twice for zone 2 etc) and then automatically resets.
Please note however that, my reading of the recommendations of BS5839 part 1 2002 is that you don't need to check that each detector indicates on the correct zone as part of the routine maintenance schedule or even that it signals the control panel at all! I would guess that it is presumed that the detector to panel operation and the zone allocation has been tested at commissioning or subsequent system modification and it is not going to change by itself since those times.
I'm sure that many on FireNet wouldn't agree that a simple detector operation test is a sufficient test, but that's what BS intimates!
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Davro,
Did you actually put a capital letter on every single word, or did the FireNet software do this? Did you perhaps put everything in capitol letters (which I think our software will not allow).
Either way, it makes for difficult reading, if you could put future posts in the normal format, I am sure we would all be very grateful.
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The Company I Work For Just Got A Contract With Alot Of Old Fire Alarms On Big Buildings.there Is No One Man Walk Test Or Any Other Functions Apart From The Basics. So My Question Is,is It Alright To Test More Than One Detector On The Same Zone Then Reset The Panel.the Biggest Building Has Twelve Floors With A Seperate Zone On Each Level Which Is Good But Not When It Comes To Testing It. No Elevator In This Place Just Alot Of Steps. I Normanally Test One Detector In Each Zone Then Go Back To The Panel To See If The Zone Light Comes Up Then Reset It.but It Would Be Handy If It Is Alright To Test A Floor At A Time. 50% Service Every 6 Months. Approx 20-25 Detectors In Each Zone.
My first enquiry is how long did you take to start every single word with capital letter
My second enquiry is what make you are talking about?
Thirdly If the system is not two wire system why not just remove the fuses of the outputs (sounders, relays) when testing...
that won't reset the system after a device is tested Benzerai .
I agree, but what else can be done if the system has not got OMT option as stated in the original post, the only thing is that the system may need reset every 4-5 tests...
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Sorry about the capitals, but i know that a mate of mine use to service this system (firedex 9000) and that he works with a big company who can afford two men on the job. I work as a part of a 3 man team and the boss always say's yes you can have 2 people then when the time comes the other man is booked in somewhere else,and yes i test 1 detector at a time then reset again,all i wanted to know is it o.k to put 2 or more detectors in fire on the same zone then reset it and does this make this service o.k.
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I would say no as with testing one at a time with OMT you can see if the panel has activated then reset by watching the LED.
By testing two then resetting you cannot tell if both would have activated the panel individually. Most cases when the led comes on it would have but i would be happier doing them one at a time to be sure.
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I would say no as with testing one at a time with OMT you can see if the panel has activated then reset by watching the LED.
By testing two then resetting you cannot tell if both would have activated the panel individually. Most cases when the led comes on it would have but i would be happier doing them one at a time to be sure.
If they were accessible you could pop the heads out to reset them,although this can have it's downside - if you don't put one back into the base correctly you end up chasing a fault.
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I would say no as with testing one at a time with OMT you can see if the panel has activated then reset by watching the LED.
By testing two then resetting you cannot tell if both would have activated the panel individually. Most cases when the led comes on it would have but i would be happier doing them one at a time to be sure.
If they were accessible you could pop the heads out to reset them,although this can have it's downside - if you don't put one back into the base correctly you end up chasing a fault.
But this doesn't reset the panel! - Which is the element that takes time to walk back to the panel and reset.
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Sorry about the capitals, but i know that a mate of mine use to service this system (firedex 9000) and that he works with a big company who can afford two men on the job. I work as a part of a 3 man team and the boss always say's yes you can have 2 people then when the time comes the other man is booked in somewhere else,and yes i test 1 detector at a time then reset again,all i wanted to know is it o.k to put 2 or more detectors in fire on the same zone then reset it and does this make this service o.k.
Did you read my earlier post?
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I would say no as with testing one at a time with OMT you can see if the panel has activated then reset by watching the LED.
By testing two then resetting you cannot tell if both would have activated the panel individually. Most cases when the led comes on it would have but i would be happier doing them one at a time to be sure.
Graeme, I accept your point but I would argue that BS doesn't appear to insist on this. Also technically most panels will handle a number of detectors operated at the same time on one zone. Therefore it is technically possible and BS doesn't recommend otherwise. Therefore surely the simple answer to Davro is 'yes, you can do it this way!'.
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I would say no as with testing one at a time with OMT you can see if the panel has activated then reset by watching the LED.
By testing two then resetting you cannot tell if both would have activated the panel individually. Most cases when the led comes on it would have but i would be happier doing them one at a time to be sure.
If they were accessible you could pop the heads out to reset them,although this can have it's downside - if you don't put one back into the base correctly you end up chasing a fault.
But this doesn't reset the panel! - Which is the element that takes time to walk back to the panel and reset.
I agree with that, removing the source that generates fire signal would not reset the system, this later can be reset only from the main panel, Reset usually means (Processor Restart), once you walk to the panel with the detector head in your hand and push reset button, the system will clear fire condition and show head removed fault instead... which is two kind of tests in once fire and fault conditions...
I know this is basic and obvious to most of the members, but please leave chance to others who may find it beneficial.
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I would say no as with testing one at a time with OMT you can see if the panel has activated then reset by watching the LED.
By testing two then resetting you cannot tell if both would have activated the panel individually. Most cases when the led comes on it would have but i would be happier doing them one at a time to be sure.
If they were accessible you could pop the heads out to reset them,although this can have it's downside - if you don't put one back into the base correctly you end up chasing a fault.
But this doesn't reset the panel! - Which is the element that takes time to walk back to the panel and reset.
No but on a conventional system it will reset the head (unless you have an odd head where the base has the indicating control) and thus proving that the detecor has activated and,as you have pointed out,that's all you need to be doing in reference to BS.
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If they were accessible you could pop the heads out to reset them,although this can have it's downside - if you don't put one back into the base correctly you end up chasing a fault.
But this doesn't reset the panel! - Which is the element that takes time to walk back to the panel and reset.
No but on a conventional system it will reset the head (unless you have an odd head where the base has the indicating control) and thus proving that the detecor has activated and,as you have pointed out,that's all you need to be doing in reference to BS.
Yes removing the triggred head will reset it, in either cases conventional or analogue addressable head, but the system would not, the system still need to be reset from the main panel...
Head removed means just removing the 24Vdc from it, isn't? and that is what reset it
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If they were accessible you could pop the heads out to reset them,although this can have it's downside - if you don't put one back into the base correctly you end up chasing a fault.
But this doesn't reset the panel! - Which is the element that takes time to walk back to the panel and reset.
I agree with that, removing the source that generates fire signal would not reset the system, this later can be reset only from the main panel, Reset usually means (Processor Restart), once you walk to the panel with the detector head in your hand and push reset button, the system will clear fire condition and show head removed fault instead... which is two kind of tests in once fire and fault conditions...
I know this is basic and obvious to most of the members, but please leave chance to others who may find it beneficial.
Guys, Guys, Guys, I am trying to answer the enquirer's original question and the meaning behind it. There are some things being added that are not precisely relevant to the original question. We don't want to confuse our 'customers'
The guy is clearly asking if he has to reset the fire panel after operating each detector. He doesn't want to have to do this because it takes more time walking backwards and forwards to the fire panel. Unplugging the detector doesn't reset the panel. He doesn't need to reset each detector after operating it. He will reset all operated detectors when he presses reset on the panel. If he wanted to know how to reset/unlatch an individual detector he would have asked. If we are going to add things that we think are interesting to someone but are not precisely relevant to the original question, then mine would be, 'ice cream melts in the sun'.
Sorry! I'm losing it a bit here. I shouldn't really allow my frustration to turn into sarcasm!
----Prof. Kurnal, call Matron and ask her for my medication immediately, before I do something I regret!!!!
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Moral of the story is to check the FIRST post in a thread and ignore all others to avoid the googlies!!
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Moral of the story is to check the FIRST post in a thread and ignore all others to avoid the googlies!!
....and don't leave ice cream in the sun!
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But this doesn't reset the panel! - Which is the element that takes time to walk back to the panel and reset.
I agree with that, removing the source that generates fire signal would not reset the system, this later can be reset only from the main panel, Reset usually means (Processor Restart), once you walk to the panel with the detector head in your hand and push reset button, the system will clear fire condition and show head removed fault instead... which is two kind of tests in once fire and fault conditions...
I know this is basic and obvious to most of the members, but please leave chance to others who may find it beneficial.
Guys, Guys, Guys, I am trying to answer the enquirer's original question and the meaning behind it. There are some things being added that are not precisely relevant to the original question. We don't want to confuse our 'customers'
The guy is clearly asking if he has to reset the fire panel after operating each detector. He doesn't want to have to do this because it takes more time walking backwards and forwards to the fire panel. Unplugging the detector doesn't reset the panel. He doesn't need to reset each detector after operating it. He will reset all operated detectors when he presses reset on the panel. If he wanted to know how to reset/unlatch an individual detector he would have asked. If we are going to add things that we think are interesting to someone but are not precisely relevant to the original question, then mine would be, 'ice cream melts in the sun'.
Sorry! I'm losing it a bit here. I shouldn't really allow my frustration to turn into sarcasm!
----Prof. Kurnal, call Matron and ask her for my medication immediately, before I do something I regret!!!!
Wiz, just take it easy, all colaborators are trying to answer the question, each per his understanding, you agree we can not be photocopies of each other, otherwise the conversation would not make sense...
4 days OFF soon :)
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Moral of the story is to check the FIRST post in a thread and ignore all others to avoid the googlies!!
Very well put, old chap - best bit of advice ever posted on this forum!
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I agree with that, removing the source that generates fire signal would not reset the system, this later can be reset only from the main panel, Reset usually means (Processor Restart), once you walk to the panel with the detector head in your hand and push reset button, the system will clear fire condition and show head removed fault instead... which is two kind of tests in once fire and fault conditions...
I know this is basic and obvious to most of the members, but please leave chance to others who may find it beneficial.
Guys, Guys, Guys, I am trying to answer the enquirer's original question and the meaning behind it. There are some things being added that are not precisely relevant to the original question. We don't want to confuse our 'customers'
The guy is clearly asking if he has to reset the fire panel after operating each detector. He doesn't want to have to do this because it takes more time walking backwards and forwards to the fire panel. Unplugging the detector doesn't reset the panel. He doesn't need to reset each detector after operating it. He will reset all operated detectors when he presses reset on the panel. If he wanted to know how to reset/unlatch an individual detector he would have asked. If we are going to add things that we think are interesting to someone but are not precisely relevant to the original question, then mine would be, 'ice cream melts in the sun'.
Sorry! I'm losing it a bit here. I shouldn't really allow my frustration to turn into sarcasm!
----Prof. Kurnal, call Matron and ask her for my medication immediately, before I do something I regret!!!!
Wiz, just take it easy, all colaborators are trying to answer the question, each per his understanding, you agree we can not be photocopies of each other, otherwise the conversation would not make sense...
4 days OFF soon :)
Dr Wiz he say:
1) Opinions are variable - Facts are constant. We should all learn the difference.
2) Answering the question actually asked is enlightening - Going off at tangents leads to
confusion and angst.
3) In my opinon none of us are collabarators (or photocopies(?) but all just residents of a
home for the slightly bewildered
4) Prof. Kurnal is my hero
5) Enjoy your 4 days off :)
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Everyone chill out and eat their ice cream or there will be no videos over the Easter weekend. Go back to your rooms!
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I hope the climat change would not affect us see you guys after holiday :)
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what are holidays again?
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what are holidays again?
For many business owners* these are normal days but with no income whilst still costing the same level of expenditure (staff wages, NIC, business rates, rent etc. etc.)
* From Wiz's dictionary: Business owner = Unwilling tax collector forced to work for the Government on an unpaid basis