FireNet Community
FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: f500 on April 10, 2008, 12:47:36 PM
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We are currently finding a lot of 55g cartridges supplied by Thomas Glover are splitting at the brass head and eventually leaking their contents into the extinguisher body.
Note, these are the current grey cartridges not the older white ones which have previously been recalled.
We are returning them and apparently they are being examined.
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very good of you to let everyone know
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They don't have much luck with carts do they!
Worth dropping a line to IFEDA, FIA & the British Fire Consortium too so they can see if their members are having a similar problem.
Our carts are from FAC in Glamorgan and seem OK, although I think TG get theirs from FAC but with their 'own label' as they are the same grey PVC & digital print as FAC's stuff.
FAC also supply extinguishers, but not as you would expect any cartridge models! (they resell Jactone's extinguishers)
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Have informed BFC. There is also the ongoing problem with their (& others) new & re-furb co2 extinguishers leaking through the o ring, the latest new batch i received last week were bubbling away slowly, they have known about this for over a year now, yet strangely haven't managed to solve the problem!
Troubling times for TG!
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Peter Cowley formerly of TG and one of the key guys from Saffire have set up PJ Fire in conjunction with Luxfer and are manufacturers and refurbishers of CO2's to the trade UK wide. They've only been going a few months but have got some good solid contracts and a lot of disgruntled former TG customers. They are very friendly and have time for the smallest as well as the larger customers - I've been to their premises and their set up is good as well as their kit. They also fill cartridges and plan to supply all types of extinguisher later this year.
I'm fed up of TG's lack of standards and ignorance towards the smaller customers & for some time have used Express Fire in Manchester & now also PJ Fire with a bit of Jactone.
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Thanks Anthony, will look them up, will never go back to Express fire though. Been there, done that!
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Had some problems then? Feel free to PM if more appropriate.
There aren't too many alternatives to TG & Express these days that do most things, although Jewel & Cherry are supposed to be good
PJ's phone number is 01246 266090
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Is there a specific date / batch re these carts?
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All the grey ones from about 5 years ago to present.
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Ah.. Just a couple of hundred thousand then. No worries!! :)
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My recollection is that the grey skinned ones were (are ?) made under sub-contract by F.A.C.
Maybe worth a call to them if TG don't give any satisfactory responses.
And to even things out. I think Express are wonderful. :P
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My recollection is that the grey skinned ones were (are ?) made under sub-contract by F.A.C.
Maybe worth a call to them if TG don't give any satisfactory responses.
And to even things out. I think Express are wonderful. :P
Now then, is that tongue sticking out or in-cheek? There's nowt wrong with Express although I've not shopped there since getting Globally Warmed (Saffire are their suppliers). Mind you I'm crossing to the Dark Side (Chubb) next month so its all in house (ish) systems kit no more portables! Keep the kettle on.
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Express haven't stocked Saffire for years, they moved to Gloria and a bit of Amerex for a few years but are now stocking Total as their premium (kitemarked) product and Delei Fire (China) for CE marked 'cheap as chips' stuff & polished finishes.
I agree that TG's carts are now just re-badged FAC stuff. They've had trouble before over the years with cartridges, diptubes and at one point I had a glut of the last ever version of their Series 2000 AFFF models (that had the plastic 'ribbed' nozzle rather than the brass nozzle) acting as a riot control weapon - when discharge tested the ribbed nozzle shot off like a baton round, fortunately missing hitting anyone. All the units were in office type environments in different premises & not where they were likely to have been damaged prior to discharge. Needless to say it put the users off them somewhat & I replaced them all with Britannia Triclass models. Oddly they were also all Kidde Thorn branded models, not the generic TG label from independents.
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Ahh...There are some lovely designs in thier (Total's) range don't you think AB? ;)
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My recollection is that the grey skinned ones were (are ?) made under sub-contract by F.A.C.
Maybe worth a call to them if TG don't give any satisfactory responses.
And to even things out. I think Express are wonderful. :P
Now then, is that tongue sticking out or in-cheek? There's nowt wrong with Express although I've not shopped there since getting Globally Warmed (Saffire are their suppliers). Mind you I'm crossing to the Dark Side (Chubb) next month so its all in house (ish) systems kit no more portables! Keep the kettle on.
Not said in jest. I've never had a problem with them. Service is always spot on and the folk there are smashing to deal with, very helpful and nothing's too much trouble.
And believe me I can be more than troublesome when on my best form. :)
Didn't think your Globals would remain warm for too long.
There's alles a brew on up here marrer (if'n tha can ivver find tha trod this far up t'North) ;)
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I've never had problems with Express Fire either, they've gone out of their way to help me in the past & I've never had a duff unit (unlike others I could mention)
Some of the Total models are quite unique and maybe not of much use to 99% of the market, but at least it's all solid reliable stuff as is expected from the German market. The Chinese stuff they sell isn't the worst there is aboutand at least you have a choice of ranges German kite marked or imported CE marked from the one supplier - some of the other 'cheap' independents stuff that is all import and CE marked only can often be found to suffer valve leaks and in one case a 1L AFFF was found to have been filled with Powder!
The best kit is that made in Germany, UK & America as borne out by history - all the main innovations and reliable brands since extinguishers were invented came from these locations - Minimax, Pyrene, Read & Campbell (Waterloo), Nu Swift*, etc
We seem to be straying off the main topic here though and product alerts are fair enough, but unless you have problems you are willing to back up with examples that you can substantiate from experience we should avoid saying people are rubbish (we are all guilty of this to some degree).
For my part I have no problem with my suppliers who I am happy to recommend: www.xpressfire.co.uk www.jactone.com & www.pjfire.co.uk
* I may have a dislike of Nu Swift (& associates) current practices and pricing but I still recognise their major contribution to development of new technology and quality product in their earlier life as J Blakeborough in the 1920's through to about the 1970's
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Sorry to go off topic there AB (I blame that pseudonym guy)
The TG cartridge problem I have not come across since the infamous "white skinned" re-call. However I am investigating with various trade contacts as I'm typing this.
As for the CO2 situation mentioned by f500:
I think a year is a bit of an understatement. The Chinese (copy) 'o' ring problem has been about for nearer 3 years. It's basically down to a sub-standard copy of the approved nitrile 'o' ring.
The copy is in fact porous to CO2 gas. As the gas leaches through it also partially dissolves the nitrile rubber, hence the black streaks oozing from the neck.
Another interesting point is that the absorbed gas actually expands the 'o' ring to approx. 3 times the original circumference. Remove one from a cylinder and you can actually witness the "solid" 'o' ring deflate.
Being a politically correct kinda guy, I will not go into the excuses used by those who have manufactured with this 'o' ring. But some of them verge from hilarity to down right negligent.
What I will say is that if anyone is just discovering this problem now (3 years after its initial discovery) then it may not just be the 'o' ring that could be the problem. These things have leaked since day one of manufacture.
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Good information, thanks "The Reiver".
I wonder just how much money per o-ring they are actually saving by using cheap immitations, can't be much surely?
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Not much I guess - but I think its a lack of QA as well as cost - Having seen photos of the Chinese factories (& there are at least a dozen) they are churning out hundreds if not thousands of extinguishers every day, mass production & low overheads being king.
CE only marked stuff is gradually eating away at the UK market, I'd say it's up to a third of the market & growing, with Lloyds Register being used by some as an alternative to traditional BSI kitemarks or the lesser used LPCB scheme. I've seen more failures in non-BSI & non-LPCB kit over the years though.
If a particular model is subject to regular & potential failure that could be a hazard, then contact the importer/supplier - normally they should help (poor products = upset & disappearing customers) - if not then the situation should be reported to the appropriate regulatory bodies and Trading Standards.
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Good to know.