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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Technical Advice => Topic started by: BHCC on April 17, 2008, 04:48:20 PM

Title: BS5839 Certification
Post by: BHCC on April 17, 2008, 04:48:20 PM

Hello

Would you agree or disagree that the design certificate for a new fire alarm should be issued before the comencement of the installation.

I have been told by our contractor that all certificates will be issued when the job has been fully commissioned.

Just need to check before I speak to him.

Thanks in advance

Mark

Title: BS5839 Certification
Post by: Wiz on April 17, 2008, 05:15:25 PM

The installer does not need to see a design certificate before commencing works.

BS states that it is not the responsibility of the installer to check or verify whether the design complies.

However the designer needs to provide sufficient information and guidance to the installer to enable him to comply with his installer responsibilities.

At the very least the designer should confirm the system category to the installer.

BHCC, in your case is the designer also the installer?

Title: BS5839 Certification
Post by: BHCC on April 17, 2008, 05:20:43 PM

Thanks Wiz

In answer to your question, no, the designer is not the installer.

My concern is who would take responsability if there was a problem after installation. Both parties could blame each other.

Maybe I am trying to complicate things

Title: BS5839 Certification
Post by: Wiz on April 17, 2008, 06:03:21 PM

They can blame each other as much as they want, but at the end of the day the designer, installer and commisioner each have their own responsibilities so it will be pretty obvious who is responsible for a problem:

The very basic summary of responsibilities is:

The designer selects the equipment and decides in which areas it needs to be installed.

The installer installs the equipment in the correct locations and connects it.

The commissioner tests that the system is working correctly

If you are sure the designer and installer are experienced in their respective duties, I'd let them get on with it and you will find that all should be well.

I hope!

Title: BS5839 Certification
Post by: Galeon on April 17, 2008, 11:02:56 PM

I would agree with what has been posted , unfortunately I have lost count the amount of jobs I have seen specified to comply to BS 5839 2002 . As well we all know that doesn't exist . I find it incredible that on a drawing released in many cases the system actual design (lets say L2) for example never appears , on the drawing.
Any diligent installer , commissioning engineer , has by default a duty of care to notify where he / she knowingly encounters a system that is wrong , there by doing someones work who has got paid to do it already. The safety net is obviously 3rd party verification .
Therefore in my view , before any installation work starts , look at your specification and quantify what the design is and don't entertain BS 5839 2002  as it will no doubt only get worse from there.

Title: BS5839 Certification
Post by: Wiz on April 18, 2008, 09:08:40 AM

Whilst agreeing with Galeon I think a point in his post needs clarification.

The bit about 'dont entertain BS 5839 2002' I'm sure is meant to read 'don't entertain just the decription BS5839 2002, but ensure it includes the 'Part' number and the 'category'. For example BS5839 2002 Part 1  L3, or whatever.

From your point of view, if you are an 'interested party' you should have already been involved in the desicion of which 'category' is to be used for the design, but it is good practice to keep mentioning it at every stage of the project

Title: BS5839 Certification
Post by: Galeon on April 18, 2008, 09:56:47 AM

Wiz , was late when I posted , and yes you are spot on .