FireNet Community

FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: jokar on April 21, 2008, 07:53:38 PM

Title: Fire Doors in Flats
Post by: jokar on April 21, 2008, 07:53:38 PM

Can I ask if panel members have an opinion on the following.
Internal flat doors are nominally fire resistant and self closing.  Some stores sell hold open devices that are really just door stops to prevent doors closing and injuring small children.  Other than dorguard and other proprietary devices which will still close on operation of an alarm, how do you keep small children safe in these instances?

Title: Fire Doors in Flats
Post by: kurnal on April 21, 2008, 09:01:03 PM

Well I guess you may as well move with the times. Since ADB 2007 was published last year internal flat doors are no longer recommended as self closing, surely nobody could criticise you for moving with the times?

Title: Fire Doors in Flats
Post by: jokar on April 21, 2008, 09:30:23 PM

Yes I know, but what about those built before or to other standards?

Title: Fire Doors in Flats
Post by: kurnal on April 21, 2008, 09:34:44 PM

In this case though it seems to be a change in approach recognising nobody wants self closing doors in their flat- though the door spec was formalised a little no other changes were made to compensate for the removal of the rising butts et al so I cant see any reason not to apply it retrospectively.

Title: Fire Doors in Flats
Post by: wee brian on April 21, 2008, 10:46:04 PM

I agree with Kurnal

Title: Fire Doors in Flats
Post by: Tom Sutton on April 22, 2008, 09:40:29 AM

Can I clarify we are not talking about the entrance door to the flat this will still require a SC to maintain the compartmentation?

Title: Fire Doors in Flats
Post by: Midland Retty on April 22, 2008, 10:40:37 AM

Quote from: twsutton

Can I clarify we are not talking about the entrance door to the flat this will still require a SC to maintain the compartmentation?

Ive come across many doors to entrance flats without self closers. The theory is residents will close keep their doors closed for security / privacy purposes.

Title: Fire Doors in Flats
Post by: wee brian on April 22, 2008, 10:50:17 AM

Yes - except when thay are fleeing from a fire in their flat (this happens a lot).

If the door gets left open they put everybody else in danger.

Title: Fire Doors in Flats
Post by: jokar on April 22, 2008, 02:36:01 PM

TWS, just the internal doors.  Just to add to this, my daughter is a manager in Mothercare and this was a question posed to staff by customers who want to protect their children from injury from fire doors.

Title: Fire Doors in Flats
Post by: wee brian on April 22, 2008, 04:39:47 PM

Thats why ADB changed.

Title: Fire Doors in Flats
Post by: Tom Sutton on April 22, 2008, 07:21:28 PM

A supplementary question - would you accept 1st or 2nd generation perko closers or would you require them to be replaced with BS EN 1154 closers.

Title: Fire Doors in Flats
Post by: kurnal on April 22, 2008, 07:24:55 PM

TW
If they were there and working I would accept all of them. For new installs and replacements I would go for BSEN1154.

There is unlikely to be a high fire loading next to the flat entrance door
Many flat entrance doors have a nightlatch so there may be no need to the closer to keep the door firmly closed once the latch has operated.