FireNet Community
FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Technical Advice => Topic started by: David Rooney on April 24, 2008, 06:28:36 PM
-
Had our bi-annual BAFE inspection today and passed with flying colours, one thing we got pulled on was that we didn't install a call point on the exit from an external boiler room (about 4 sq m) off of a church that posed no threat to life or affected anyones means of escape. The room had a detector/sounder.
System was to L2 and we were told this should have been noted as a variation... ok begrudgingly accepted.
Inspector also mentioned a 2008 draft that is soon to be published. I only had a quick look but could only see lots of new references to European standards, no real technical changes.
Are there any meaningful changes that anyone knows of, and why is it not issued as an amendment instead of making us all buy a complete new copy for silly money... or have i got it all wrong??
-
http://view.bsi-global-email.com/?j=fe8d10757d61077d7c&m=fef91270746c03&ls=fdf01579776c077971137571
Got this through from BSI if it shines any light on it.
Allen
-
Also is the batteries calculation required for each service visit, to get SP203 service BAFE certification, while taking into account NOT the max or min current load in quiscent and alarm as per the guide...etc, but the actual current load Iq and Ia, when mains disconnected?
-
Also is the batteries calculation required for each service visit, to get SP203 service BAFE certification, while taking into account NOT the max or min current load in quiscent and alarm as per the guide...etc, but the actual current load Iq and Ia, when mains disconnected?
You don't issue BAFE service certificates... only an initial Cetificate of Conformity. In theory if a non BAFE firm takes over the certificate is invalidated.
The company taking over would doo all the checks recommended in the code for the initial inspection by a new service company.
In short, no you don't need to do standby checks each service visit... however we do it for our own records in case someone else has added any equipment (does happen where a floor or part of a building is sub-let) or to identify if something is failing and drawing more current than it should....
-
Had our bi-annual BAFE inspection today and passed with flying colours, one thing we got pulled on was that we didn't install a call point on the exit from an external boiler room (about 4 sq m) off of a church that posed no threat to life or affected anyones means of escape. The room had a detector/sounder.
System was to L2 and we were told this should have been noted as a variation... ok begrudgingly accepted.
Inspector also mentioned a 2008 draft that is soon to be published. I only had a quick look but could only see lots of new references to European standards, no real technical changes.
Are there any meaningful changes that anyone knows of, and why is it not issued as an amendment instead of making us all buy a complete new copy for silly money... or have i got it all wrong??
A 4 sq M boiler room not connected to the main building other than pipework and containing a detector. Sounds more like a tick box audit. Is it free?
-
A 4 sq M boiler room not connected to the main building other than pipework and containing a detector. Sounds more like a tick box audit. Is it free?
What colour are the clouds on your planet......???? !!!!
-
Aren't I glad I don't have to worry about this!
-
Aren't I glad I don't have to worry about this!
What, you mean the colour of the clouds?
-
Aren't I glad I don't have to worry about this!
What, you mean the colour of the clouds?
Nah,the SP203 thing.
-
I thought it was quite simple. A call point is needed at each exit point. How far would someone in the boiler room upon discovering have had to walk to the nearest call point to raise the alarm?
-
Quite right... call point technically should be by each exit to air... hence by not installing the mcp we should have listed it as a variation from the regs.
I suppose the distance from the boiler room to the nearest point is no more than 20m.
But in this risk based world is it
a/ reasonable to expect a fire to break out when the room is occupied, justifying the installation of a call point
b/ reasonable to think mr boiler service man will go find the nearest call point in the church if he did discover a fire.....?
c/ as its an outside bolier room of concrete construction, is it really necessary to evacuate the church in terms of life safety in the first place ??!!
no idea..............!!!
-
Forgive me for being devil's advokate, but I'd guess:
a - it seems unlikely, but that isn't how things work. We don't put them only where we expect a fire to start when someone is there. Following that logic most places wounldn't get a call point.
b - guess he probably would, it is most probable that he would not be injured and able and willing to make the effort. Again, how far to do we take it? Who knows. Perhaps that is why we need standards.
c - If there is a fire in the building, ABSOLUTELY! What else would we do, leave them in a burning building?
-
Forgive me for being devil's advokate, but I'd guess:
a - it seems unlikely, but that isn't how things work. We don't put them only where we expect a fire to start when someone is there. Following that logic most places wounldn't get a call point.
b - guess he probably would, it is most probable that he would not be injured and able and willing to make the effort. Again, how far to do we take it? Who knows. Perhaps that is why we need standards.
c - If there is a fire in the building, ABSOLUTELY! What else would we do, leave them in a burning building?
Morning Chris
a - fair enough
b - he's liable to try to put it out himself as he was the one working on it.
c - the boilerhouse isn't in the building and you could have the scenario that the congreagation evacuate and muster by going past the risk/fire.
-
OK, must admit now I'm a bit confused, thought the boiler room was attached but separated by a concrete wall. If it is detached and some distance away, then I will reconsider my points. If it is attached, then an evacuation must surely be undertaken.
-
OK, must admit now I'm a bit confused, thought the boiler room was attached but separated by a concrete wall. If it is detached and some distance away, then I will reconsider my points. If it is attached, then an evacuation must surely be undertaken.
I'd think of the boiler room as a semi detached bunker.
I suppose the evacuation should be undertaken - after all if the detector in their went off it would evacuate the lot......
It just seems overkill to install the call point when as you say the guy could run off and find another one......
-
OK, must admit now I'm a bit confused, thought the boiler room was attached but separated by a concrete wall. If it is detached and some distance away, then I will reconsider my points. If it is attached, then an evacuation must surely be undertaken.
I'd think of the boiler room as a semi detached bunker.
I suppose the evacuation should be undertaken - after all if the detector in their went off it would evacuate the lot......
It just seems overkill to install the call point when as you say the guy could run off and find another one......
And there is a detector in the boiler room.
-
No one should ever have to exit a part of the building and then re-enter another part just to operate a call point.
Many boiler houses these days are integral to a building, but with access only from external to the rest of the building and I would assume that the fire resistance from the boiler house to the rest of the building is very high.
However, whilst it might seem unlikely that the person in a smallish boiler room wouldn't be able to exit quite quickly in an emergency, the need to be able to raise a fire alarm warning signal is surely important. It is likely that a fire in a boiler house could quickly become a serious problem, due to the close proximity of fuel etc., and I see the need to quickly warn others to evacuate the rest of the building in the event of a fire in the bolier house as important.
For my part, I consider these sort of boiler houses need the relevant automatic detection and at least one manual call point (all allocated on their own fire zone if the boiler house can only be accessed external to the main building) and at least one audible and one visual warning device (because boiler houses can be noisy).
-
If it is attached, even if separated by a concrete wall, then you must evacuate. The concrete wall may have penetrations, the roof might ignite and burn over, too many unknowns.
I think BAFE were right, but accept it is pretty far down the list of priorities and most boiler rooms probably don't have them. If that was all they found wrong, I think you are doing a good job!
-
I think BAFE were right, but accept it is pretty far down the list of priorities and most boiler rooms probably don't have them. If that was all they found wrong, I think you are doing a good job!
Oh stop it... I'll blush.....