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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: SteveR on December 17, 2004, 01:55:58 PM
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Hi
just wondering what other Fire Safety Advisors are doing regarding Risk Assessments on Alcohol Based Hand Wash in the workplace. I know its been around for some time but not in the quantities now in use.
I have done some physical burning tests with the chosen product for my hospital, and was wondering if anyone else has information to share.
Look forward to some response.
Cheers
SteveR
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SteveR
While we are waiting for people to share their information on this subject, why don't you share yours!?
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Just out of interest, what sort of quantities do hospitals have and how does this compare with quantities of other flammable liquids (I am assuming that you are talking about this because it is flammable - perhaps you could let us all know.)
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Chris
it is fair to say that the gels have been available and used for some considerable time but in very limited quantities, perhaps one or two 500ml containers on a 30 bed ward. Now however, as part of the DOH Clean your Hands Campaign, we can expected up to 40 containers, (20Lts) as one is placed at each bed head, ward entrance, toilets, nurses station and in some cases attached to the nurses belt.
Not forgetting the stores required to replenish the empties.
Hope this answers youyr question.
Regards
SteveR
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there is a great article in the "ambulance today" magazine (volume 4 issue 2) relating to alcohol based handwash in hospitals
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NHS Alert 2005 (07) details advice relating to alcohol wash. I feel it does not go far enough wih respect to Mental Health and Learning Disabilities though. This substance must be more strictly controlled in these areas, not only from a fire point of view.
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I've had one example of fire related injury caused by igniting the residues of an alchohol based hand gel immediately after using the gel. Source of ignition was cigarette lighter being used to actually light a cigarette.
Needless to say the event was despite warning notices and information about the hazard
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I have heard that some Trusts are re evaluating using such handwashes as patients are drinking it!
I kid you not. It's possible that Trusts may stop using it, not for safetyreasons, but due to them getting through it far quicker than planned, thereby using up valuable NHS dosh.
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Hi there Newbie Here...
I appreciate its an old thread, but does anyone have any evidence of specific Fires or incidences relating to Alcohol Gel or their dispensers.
I am training around 1800 staff over the coming year in mental health environments where the gel is often 'on tap'...
any advice, videos or images appreciated
cheers
Dom.
North Essex Partnership Foundation Trust
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Unfortunately i don't know of any particular incidents personally... nor do i have any videos.
I think so long as common sense precautions are put in place there shouldn't be a problem.
I have known Mental Health patients with behavioural disorders to smuggle in matches and lighters and hide them with the intent to try and set fire to something.
But other than that keep them a sensible distance away from sources of heat or substantial ignition sources.
Consider use of fixed rather than portable dispensers so that they cant be removed.
If you feel that patients will try to set fire to this type of product then you will have to consider replacing the hand gel with a non combustible alternative.
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Hi "M-R" are you aware of a brand or specific gel that is known to be un ignitable
On some of our units service users do have control of their own lighters etc for smoking... so there is a risk of attempting to light it ... the same as they have consumed amounts of it b4 too !
Dom
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I dont unfortunately dont off the top of my head Dom - maybe worth talking to your suppliers to see if they can offere a suitable alternative
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It happens from time to time during operations. People go in to have their appendix out and when they wake up they have 10% burns!
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It would be classed as a Dangerous Substance under the FSO as it is flammable?
Article 12 (1) says that where a dangerous sub is present, RP must ensure risk to relevant persons is eliminated/reduced as far as possible
(2) In complying with 1 RP MUST, so far as is reasonably practicable, replace a dangerous substance, or the use of a dangerous substance, with a substance or process which either eliminates or reduces the risk to relevant persons.
From the example it sounds like there is a credible risk, therefore if another product is available that isn't flammable or is less flammable, then it should replace the one that is currently in use.
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But is there a suitable alternative? The NHS kill thousands of people with superbugs every year. If this stuff helps with that then the fire risk may just need to be managed.
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But is there a suitable alternative? The NHS kill thousands of people with superbugs every year. If this stuff helps with that then the fire risk may just need to be managed.
I've no idea if there is an alternative. Article 12(3) does go on to say that if there is no alternative then you must
(a) control the risk
(b) mitigate the detrimental effects of a fire
so they seem to have it covered from all angles
Brian, did you mean it to read as though the NHS are committing genocide?
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Thats one way of keeping the population down, probably better than the Chinese way of child discrimination.
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We have NHS wards buying small flammable liquid cabinets from us to store the gels in on the wards as it keeps coming up in their risk assessments.
Jason
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Just stumbled upon this thread. Are we going to have to supply Alcohol Resistant Foam Extinguishers to cover the risks on wards and stores?
If you had a stores with 50 or 100 litres of Alcohol Based Hand Wash Gel how would the risk be assessed and how many Alcohol Resistant Foam Extinguishers would be required?
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Just stumbled upon this thread. Are we going to have to supply Alcohol Resistant Foam Extinguishers to cover the risks on wards and stores?
If you had a stores with 50 or 100 litres of Alcohol Based Hand Wash Gel how would the risk be assessed and how many Alcohol Resistant Foam Extinguishers would be required?
If an alternative non flammable product was not available I would control the storage of that sort of quantity with a secure 1/2hr FR store or cabinet to prevent exposure of the product to a fire. Keep stocks as low as possible.
Extinguisher would be a token foam near hand.