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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Technical Advice => Topic started by: John@EPL on September 04, 2008, 07:15:01 AM
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Hi guys . Not posted in a while, been bit busy, hope all are well.
I am having problems with a few rafiki two wire systems I look after. The problem is bad connections in the bases. The set up is as follows.
The base has reasonable screw connectors for the cables (all ok there) from that point on the connections turn into what I assume to be copper spring connections in blind holes as the detectors plug into the bases by about 5 prongs that go into the blind holes. A smoke chamber then fits over the top top ensure everything is together.
I am getting call outs due to faults appearing on the panel and the buzzer going. It is an EOL fault ( can tell by the duration of time between buzzing) so I open up the problem detector pull out the detector and plug back in a few times and all is well again for a few weeks or months. diagnosis a bad connection in the base.
Rafiki say they have not heard of this problem , which i find hard to believe as I have this problem on three unrelated systems. it seems to be aggravated by damp as a new detector and base only lasted in a basement 3 months before the problem arrived, but also happens on above ground zones.
I have tried vasaline on the prongs, but that does not work. I am trialling some contact cleaner from maplin ( too early to tell), does anyone have any ideas how to make this problem go away. Any fab contact cleaner/ connection maker, tricks come adaptations that someone has worked out. Or are the spring contacts in the bases just hit and miss and I have to keep on changing the bases.
Thanks in advance
John
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Sounds like the contacts are oxidizing , we found a similar problem years ago. That was down to inferior metal being used , all we could do was clean the contacts when the base was down , say with a dremel tool attachment , and then give it a light coat of contact cleaner.
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only commissioned one Twinflex system and i had eol problems due to bad contacts from the prongs you discribe.
I soted them by pushing them up into base a wee bit harder.
can't say i was impressed by the system much.
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Thanks guys for your thoughts. I somehow knew I wasn't the only one.
Any thoughts on other 2 wire systems?
http://www.firesense.co.uk/concept.htm
On spec I like the look of this one. It seems to use std call pts and detectors and 2 wire special sounders. Panel looks quite robust too.
I do retrofit alarms most of the time and 2 wire is defo easier to fit and the price of cable these days, well don't get me started!
I once thought rafiki was the answer then started to service them.
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John ,
I always use Protector Alarms , 0208 761 3771 , have done since the late 80s , the original sav wire , bullet proof and you can use any sounder make mix and match , with some others you have to use a particular sounder.
They do bespoke panels , specials extremely good company.
I have had no trouble with their kit in nearly 20 years.
They are old school , knowlegable , and know what they are doing, sounds like the company you want
Give them a ring and ask for Adam he wouldnt recognise my name on here , he knows me as Paul .
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I have used the fire sense system a few times with only minor problems, just make sure your cable is spot on as they dont like earth faults and the like.
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I have used Firesense with Fulleon two wire Squashni bases in sites where additional sounders were required without additional cabling.No issues as yet and nowt to them.
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John ,
I always use Protector Alarms , 0208 761 3771 , have done since the late 80s , the original sav wire , bullet proof and you can use any sounder make mix and match , with some others you have to use a particular sounder.
They do bespoke panels , specials extremely good company.
I have had no trouble with their kit in nearly 20 years.
They are old school , knowlegable , and know what they are doing, sounds like the company you want
Give them a ring and ask for Adam he wouldnt recognise my name on here , he knows me as Paul .
Absolutely agree... Barry and Adam are old school and know their onions.... though I'm not a fan of two wire kit !!
regards the problem, had similar with James Stewart detectors (MacMillans crap....oops..... allegedly) turned out to be the contacts in the base were coated with an agent that oxidised forming an insulating barrier, hence once a month a dozen devices went missing.
Had to go around 900 devices in UK House Oxford Street with a screwdriver scratching every contact on every base.... joy !!
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Thanks again for everyones advice. Thanks paul for the introduction to protector. I have found their website and I will absorb for a few days.
The reason I like the thought of twin wire is nearly all of my alarm installs are for student properties where I need a sounder in every room to comply at the bedhead because of the fire doors. If I just had to put sounders in the hallways and a few rooms i would have used separate sounder cables on a conventional system.
I have 2 alarms booked in coming months that will have to have almost as many sounders as detectors. A 14 bed, 4 level student unit and a 12 bed student unit with commercial below on a different zone. Finding a routing for an extra cable sometimes is a pain when you are trying to get so many sounders in what is mostly converted domestic houses.
On these systems the more robust the better especially the panels. I have been to service houses with newish alarms that students have dismantled the panels or worn through the silence buttons within a year. Admittedly they have obviously had to put up with faults and nuisance alarms from systems that have badly put in, but still something built like a brick outhouse is welcomed.
Thanks again
John
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Try Kentec Savwire 2 wire -
Sounds similar to the Protector stuff, any sounder/bell is ok, we use std hochiki dets and savwire bases. Kentec Sigma panels are excellent, very high quality and robust. Very happy with this stuff.
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(MacMillans crap....oops..... allegedly)
long since gone so dont worry about it
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John ,
I always use Protector Alarms , 0208 761 3771 , have done since the late 80s , the original sav wire , bullet proof and you can use any sounder make mix and match , with some others you have to use a particular sounder.
They do bespoke panels , specials extremely good company.
I have had no trouble with their kit in nearly 20 years.
They are old school , knowlegable , and know what they are doing, sounds like the company you want
Give them a ring and ask for Adam he wouldnt recognise my name on here , he knows me as Paul .
Absolutely agree... Barry and Adam are old school and know their onions.... though I'm not a fan of two wire kit !!
regards the problem, had similar with James Stewart detectors (MacMillans crap....oops..... allegedly) turned out to be the contacts in the base were coated with an agent that oxidised forming an insulating barrier, hence once a month a dozen devices went missing.
Had to go around 900 devices in UK House Oxford Street with a screwdriver scratching every contact on every base.... joy !!
Bless him , Barry retired last week , off to his allotment full time.