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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: jasper on February 10, 2005, 09:52:20 AM
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Hi all,
I am new to the forum and have a question that I am finding difficult to resolve. Basically, I am looking into the relevant fire safety legislation for various resudential care homes. Some of the homes are for the elderly and some are for mentally disabled people. I would like to know if possible what fire legislation is relevant to homes with 1-4 residents, homes with 5 and above residents, and full blown nursing homes (and what deems a full blown). I am aware of the workplace regs and the fire precautions act, but is is the other regs that are relevant is confusing, as this is a minefield. So, any of you who have had experience of these, your answers would be greatfully received.
Regards
Jasp
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You may refer to "Health Technical Memorandum (HTM) 88 - Fire precautions in housing providing NHS supported living in the community" for premises accommodation those with mental illness or learning difficulties.
The document provides guidance in respect of fire precautions for premises with accommodation upto 2 floors above ground or access level, and accommodating upto 6 residents.
It is quite prescriptive, but does include a basic risk assessment process and a checklist for those involved in aquiring premises for the purpose of providing such accommodation.
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For residential care homes, you may find these two documents useful...
'Fire Safety in Residential Care Premises' published by the then Institute of Building Control in 1997
'Draft guide to Fire Precautions in existing residential care premises' published by the Home Office in 1983.
The first document was published to give an English and Welsh version of the Northern Ireland HTM84. The second document, although a bit long in the tooth now, is not a bad starting point.
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The latest thinking is in the scottish version of HTMN 84 which is published as SHTM 84
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Thanks for your replies guys.
The main areas of confusion is the relevant legislation i.e. between the Registered Homes Act 184 + (amendement act 1991) and the Care Standards Act 200. Please help as I have no idea which is relevant to which i.e. small, medium, large care homes etc.
Jasp
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In terms of fire safety the Care Standards Act 2000 doesn't say a lot.
The Act states that bodies providing care should make provision as to the fitness of premises to be used as an establishment or for the purposes of an agency.
Under the section regarding the granting/refusal or withdrawal of a licence, it cites that grounds for withdrawal of a liense would be an offense under the Registered Homes Act 1984
Under the Care Standards Act the Secretary of State may set minimum standards which will be inspected by the National Care Standards Commission (Now either the Commission for Social Care Inspection CSCI or Commission for Healthcare Audit and Insprection CHAI - depending upon whether the registered home is providing social care or health care).
The National Minimum Standards for Sicial care can be downloaded from:
http://www.csci.org.uk/information_for_service_providers/national_minimum_standards/default.htm
The following are the only references to fire in the National Minimum Standards for Care Homes for Older People
19.5 The building complies with the requirements of the local fire service and
environmental health department.
38.2 The registered manager ensures safe working practices including:
ยท fire safety: understanding and implementation of appropriate fire
procedures;
I haven't been able to find similar documents for healthcare standards, the CHAI website merely cite the Care Standards Act 2000 for the minimum standards to which it audits and inspects. Their website is http://www.chai.org.uk/
Hope this helps
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Which, like all good government standards, is no help at all.
In practice you need to convince everybody that you have done things properly. the SHTM is by far the best avilable guidance but some brigades may have their own ideas.
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All these regulations seem to identify the basic need, but no detailed requirements.
Example of problem:
I have visited two care homes today - one was a two-storey domestic dwelling with 3 residents with learning difficuilties (not too severe) and had only mains wired battery backup interlinked smoke alarms, adequate extinguishers, but no door leading to the staircase enclosure was fire resisting, no strips seals or door closers. Under the fire service advice note this is ok as to comply with the care standards act 2000, as regard to detection and all bedrooms were directly onto staircase.
The second premises was a single storey dwelling with 3 residents (all severe mental / physical disabilities). This had full automatic detection, fire doors with automatic closers etc. and was very well designed as regard to fire safety.
Which standards do you guys think each of these examples complie with, as in my opinion, the stairway on the 1st premises should be protected?
Also, the 1st has just had a partial refurb and all the 1st floor windows were specified as being upvc emergency escape windows, this was even though each room lead directly onto the staircase, can this be right or is it just a smart salesman?your opinions would be appreciated on this
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Anyone?
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For the first premises the descision as to what guidance to use is really dependent upon which body if any has responsibility or a duty of care to the residents.
Since you state that the residents have learning difficulties the premises fit within the scope of HTM 88. However, that guidance was written specifically for the provision of NHS supported living.
Whilst I beleive the guidance contained in that document would be appropriate for both premises you describe, your problem will be convincing a landlord or non-NHS body of their need to comply.
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In HSG220 'Health and Safety in Care Homes' the HSE still refer to the 1983 Draft Guide - which is obtainable at http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_buildreg/documents/page/odpm_breg_035369.hcsp
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Hi, I have just joined up today and would like to know if anyone else has heard or applied the term "Stay put Policy" for residents in residential care or nursing homes. Apparently it has been mentioned by staff and its thought to have originated from some fire authorities. I have only seen it applied in one large sheltered accommodation containing 41 flats with a member of staff on duty 24 hours a day.Any comments please
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Sheletered accom is very different from a care homes. Its basicly a block of flats, which are designed with a stay put philosophy.
The only differences are some shared facilities and a warden, who may not always be on site.
Its not a "recognised" opton for res care, as far as I am ware, but it could be more effective when you consider the practicalities of progressive evacuation of old folk.
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Stay put is often talked about ofr res care, and has even been accepted by some fire authorities. Personally, I do not agree with it.
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Stay put is Ok as well as partial evacuation to a different zone (if the place is zoned) it all depends on staff training, and you have to weigh up in the assessment if the probability of surviving inside the building is greater than trying to get the residents outside, especially in temperatures/weather like we are having at the moment. SHTM 84 is only for Scotland, doesn't apply England, Wales or NI and in fact started life as a copy out from HTM84 which was purely for NI. and, it is only the latest thinking if you live/work in Scotland. Wales has also recently published a guide based on HTM 84 but ditto re Scotland. I am led to believe, and I have a copy, that everyones favourite organisation BSI have a document giving guidance called 'Fire Safety in Care Homes for Older People and Children', its worth a look along wiith all the other guides. As for the draft HO guide 1983/green guide I think that is really old hat. I always find a visit to the relevant NHS Firecode documents helpful.
Hope that helps in some way
Cheers
Bob Doc
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You could always try waiting for the ODPM's 'guide to premises that provide care'. Ha, Ha.
Notice how the door was left open for further delays in bringing the RRO into force post April 2006
And Colin, Stay put is OK and practised extensively in the North, although admittedly normally in Sheltered Housing. All to do with those fabulous construction and management standards.
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In my experience, sheltered accommodation can vary considerably - particularly with some of the older construction. 'Stay put' may not always be the better option and would normaly only apply to the actual flats rather than the communal areas such as meeting rooms, laundries, tenants halls, etc that some have. Some sheltered accommodation shares facilities with residential care whilst other is a block of flats among others that are conventional housing. We certainly had some like this with a 'stay put' philosophy in my local government days. As to residential and nursing care, I would not support staying put as an approved action - not the least because of the duty of care and control implications for those providing the facility. However, progressive evacuation may well still be progressing when the brigade arrive and appropriate decisions can be made based upon the actual situation at the time.
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Carol, what would you prefer, ODPM to rush and get slapdash guidance out, or to take their time and get it right? In both cases you'd criticize them, by the look of your comment. I know which I'd prefer.
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Stay put is well established for Flats and Sheltered accom (where its like a block of flats). There are some people suggesting that the way forward for res care is something similar.
In practice its very difficult for a couple of carers to get (say) a dozen patients out of their bedrooms before the corridor is filled with smoke.
Opening the door from a smoke filled corridor into an unaffected bedroom to evacuate somebody may well kill them instead. They may be better off staying in their rooms, they may have to!
AS for the ODPM guides, these are for risk assessment in existing premises, they won't have the sort of detail required to design a new care home.
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Ken has got it right. In many cases, sheltered housing is just a special case of a block of flats for which stay put has always been the advocated procedure, and it is usually fine unless the block was built in the 1960s when they were cavalier about the (lack of ) fire stopping. Res care is something else entirely. I should not think it would have worked well at Rosepark, but we will see when the fatal accident inquiry is eventually held.
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Mark1
Apologies for my slightly flippant remark but I, like you, have a pretty good understanding of the way the whole RRO/guidance thing works.
If the ODPM had really listened, unlike the 'targeted consultations' and lip service paid to some other well meaning organisations, then many of the delays will not have occurred.
The FSAB was disolved, I believe, on a political/civil service whim and this removed a valuable layer of advice from the department.
Several of this group, including most of the main stakeholders, argued in favour of a risk assessment guide followed by short guides targeted at particular purpose groups. I believe, unofficially, that the consultants now emptying the ODPM's coffers, also would prefer to re-write in this format.
Several problems were pointed out in the RRO, some as long ago as late 2003 and yet they were only addressed last week.
If the ODPM didn't appear to think that all stakeholders only had a narrow self interest agenda then much of this would have been sorted months ago.
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Remind me what good did the FSAB ever do for mankind?????
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Colin
Rather like you, it made a nuisance of itself. Difference is that you can't be got rid of so easily.
WB
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1.
Fire Safety in Care Homes for Older People and Children
Dr Don Christian
BSI, BIP 2004
ISBN 0 580 41427 2
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If premises are registerd with Commission for Social Care Inspection the outcomes detailed in their National Minimum Standards Documents will need to be taken into account. Most of The documents also detail in full the requirements of the relevant regulations (Care Homes Regulations and Children's Homes Regulations 2001)
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NM, Brian. Next round of cuts, we will get rid of even more civil servants, who are a nuisance to the pocket of those who create the nation's wealth, rather than just spend it.
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Colin,
Indeed, National Care Standards Commission, Commission for Social Care Inspection. I don't know about cuts, I understand that possibly another Quango is already being conceived to replace CSCI,Hey Ho!
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Destined, I believe for the Health Development Agency (under the present administration).