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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: messy on September 17, 2008, 07:37:51 PM
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When it comes to LAs giving guidance for licensing HMOs, many dictate that polystyrene ceiling tiles must be removed.
Is this just 'best practice' or have the local authorities referring to specific guidance from somewhere
I have looked at the new Lacors guide and can't find any specific mention of the poly tiles.
I am trying to gather evidence for a friend whose son has been taken a room in a house near his University which has poly tiles across the ground floor ceiling. I am unsure of any other details at present. There are few if any rooms anywhere nearer the Uni, so he is reluctant to move to another property and then be faced with the additional expense of travelling miles every day
If I could find some definitive guidance re the tiles, it may strengthen their argument with the landlord and distance me from the problems as I reckon I am reluctantly being sucked in to sort it out.
Messy
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT7chxB45Ms
Takes you back to Mary Mungo & Midge
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The recommendation to remove polystyrene tiles goes back some distance into the past when Fire Research was asked to do work on them, possibly for the then Home Office or may have been DoE in connection with Building Regs. I was not actually involved in this work but have seen some of the test results. As I recall gloss paint on the tiles when exposed to a fire resulted in very rapid fire spread with large flakes of burning paint dropping off and spreading the fire to objects in the room.
I suspect the advice to remove the tiles is to stop them being coated with something inappropriate as it is impossible to control what people apply to them. But who is currently giving this advice I've no idea!
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When it comes to LAs giving guidance for licensing HMOs, many dictate that polystyrene ceiling tiles must be removed.
Is this just 'best practice' or have the local authorities referring to specific guidance from somewhere
I have looked at the new Lacors guide and can't find any specific mention of the poly tiles.
I am trying to gather evidence for a friend whose son has been taken a room in a house near his University which has poly tiles across the ground floor ceiling. I am unsure of any other details at present. There are few if any rooms anywhere nearer the Uni, so he is reluctant to move to another property and then be faced with the additional expense of travelling miles every day
If I could find some definitive guidance re the tiles, it may strengthen their argument with the landlord and distance me from the problems as I reckon I am reluctantly being sucked in to sort it out.
Messy
Rather than look up the LACORS guide do you know if it refers to the classifications of surface spread of flame for rooms?
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The LACORS guide covers ceiling tiles on page 32
Table C6: Suitable classes of surface finish in
certain locations in multi-occupied residential
buildings.
Class 0, B s3, d2
These are non-combustible materials and materials
of limited combustibility such as brickwork, concrete,
plasterboard and plastered finishes.
Acceptable in all locations including protected
routes, circulation routes, escape routes and
stairways.
Class 1, C s3, d2
These include timber, particleboard, hardboard and
surfaces covered with heavy flock wallpaper, provided
they have been treated with flame retardant materials.
Acceptable in rooms.
Class 3, D s3, d2
These include those specified in class 1 with the
addition of thermosetting plastics and surfaces
covered with polystyrene wall and ceiling tiles.
Not acceptable on escape routes and stairways.
Acceptable in small rooms and parts of other rooms
if the total area does not exceed more than one half
of the floor area up to a maximum of 20m².
Not acceptable on escape routes and stairways.
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When it comes to LAs giving guidance for licensing HMOs, many dictate that polystyrene ceiling tiles must be removed.
Is this just 'best practice' or have the local authorities referring to specific guidance from somewhere
I have looked at the new Lacors guide and can't find any specific mention of the poly tiles.
I am trying to gather evidence for a friend whose son has been taken a room in a house near his University which has poly tiles across the ground floor ceiling. I am unsure of any other details at present. There are few if any rooms anywhere nearer the Uni, so he is reluctant to move to another property and then be faced with the additional expense of travelling miles every day
If I could find some definitive guidance re the tiles, it may strengthen their argument with the landlord and distance me from the problems as I reckon I am reluctantly being sucked in to sort it out.
Messy
Does Dinnertime Dave's post 5 not cover this Messy?
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I do not know if this is an urban myth but many years ago we were told that EPS tiles could meet a class "O" definition because if the were tested to BS 476 part 6 they would disintegrate so fast they would not raise the temp of the furnace an additional 20 degrees therefore could be classed as a material of limited combustibility and class "O"?
How they were fixed to the ceiling, i.e. blobs of wall paper adhesive was incorrect and the paste should cover the whole of the tile also being painted over with gloss paint was the major concerns. Because you could not control this we always advised against them.
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When it comes to LAs giving guidance for licensing HMOs, many dictate that polystyrene ceiling tiles must be removed.
Is this just 'best practice' or have the local authorities referring to specific guidance from somewhere
I have looked at the new Lacors guide and can't find any specific mention of the poly tiles.
I am trying to gather evidence for a friend whose son has been taken a room in a house near his University which has poly tiles across the ground floor ceiling. I am unsure of any other details at present. There are few if any rooms anywhere nearer the Uni, so he is reluctant to move to another property and then be faced with the additional expense of travelling miles every day
If I could find some definitive guidance re the tiles, it may strengthen their argument with the landlord and distance me from the problems as I reckon I am reluctantly being sucked in to sort it out.
Messy
Does Dinnertime Dave's post 5 not cover this Messy?
Nearlythere - You are quite right - It's just what i was looking for
D/Dave: Thanks for the information, which I seemed to have overlooked the info on these tables whilst referring to the guide (Perhaps I should have gone to Specsavers!!)
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I will clarify this issue once and for all. THis applies to USA only as I can not speak for other countries, however:
If you are buying polystyrene ceiling tiles that have Class A fire rating then this tile is safe to be installed in commercial and residential interior as it has special fire retardants that dramatically minimize flame spread and smoke development making it safe and complying with US standard ASTM E84 fire test. If the tile does not have class A, B or even C fire rating it simply means that it does not even pass fire-rating test and yes it is very dangerous if it catches on fire, "the gasses they then give off are poisonous/toxic". The flame spreads very fast and gasses are lethal upon inhale. Non-fire rated tiles are prohibited in commercial environments in USA, however in residential sectors it is installed at homeowner discretion. So if you installed polystyrene ceiling tiles that do not pass fire rating at your own house its at your own discretion, however if you are doing it in a rental property than you are possible putting other lives in danger without them even knowing it. Things happen and when they happen it?s too late. There are several manufacturers on the market that produce Class A fire rated polystyrene ceiling tiles and that is what you would want. The choice is yours, be safe!
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Local authorities can make conditions as part of the HMO licensing scheme. Many (but not all) require polystyrene ceiling tiles to be removed. If the local authority does require their removal, and the landlord hasn't, then the landlord is in breach of the HMO licence.
The conditions should be available on the local authority website or from the housing or licencing department.
If the relevant local authority hasn't prohibited poly. tiles, and the landlord has complied with all the requirements of the HMO standard applicable, then the grounds for complaint would be the property failed the Housing Health And Safety Rating System standard, which I don't think it would on this concern alone.
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I will clarify this issue once and for all. THis applies to USA only as I can not speak for other countries, however:
If you are buying polystyrene ceiling tiles that have Class A fire rating then this tile is safe to be installed in commercial and residential interior as it has special fire retardants that dramatically minimize flame spread and smoke development making it safe and complying with US standard ASTM E84 fire test. If the tile does not have class A, B or even C fire rating it simply means that it does not even pass fire-rating test and yes it is very dangerous if it catches on fire, "the gasses they then give off are poisonous/toxic". The flame spreads very fast and gasses are lethal upon inhale. Non-fire rated tiles are prohibited in commercial environments in USA, however in residential sectors it is installed at homeowner discretion. So if you installed polystyrene ceiling tiles that do not pass fire rating at your own house its at your own discretion, however if you are doing it in a rental property than you are possible putting other lives in danger without them even knowing it. Things happen and when they happen it?s too late. There are several manufacturers on the market that produce Class A fire rated polystyrene ceiling tiles and that is what you would want. The choice is yours, be safe!
Well Liverpool, that has clarified the situation very nicely thank you - for USA. But I'm sure you are aware a little problem still remains.
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I will clarify this issue once and for all. THis applies to USA only as I can not speak for other countries, however:
If you are buying polystyrene ceiling tiles that have Class A fire rating then this tile is safe to be installed in commercial and residential interior as it has special fire retardants that dramatically minimize flame spread and smoke development making it safe and complying with US standard ASTM E84 fire test. If the tile does not have class A, B or even C fire rating it simply means that it does not even pass fire-rating test and yes it is very dangerous if it catches on fire, "the gasses they then give off are poisonous/toxic". The flame spreads very fast and gasses are lethal upon inhale. Non-fire rated tiles are prohibited in commercial environments in USA, however in residential sectors it is installed at homeowner discretion. So if you installed polystyrene ceiling tiles that do not pass fire rating at your own house its at your own discretion, however if you are doing it in a rental property than you are possible putting other lives in danger without them even knowing it. Things happen and when they happen it?s too late. There are several manufacturers on the market that produce Class A fire rated polystyrene ceiling tiles and that is what you would want. The choice is yours, be safe!
Well Liverpool, that has clarified the situation very nicely thank you - for USA. But I'm sure you are aware a little problem still remains.
The same posting has appeared in other places - some form of not very obvious spam or someone with a hidden agenda.
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Thanks Owain I am keeping an eye on things. There are many new members joining at the moment, on the old site the automatic self enrolment was insufficiently robust so I used to check each application individually which was quite time consuming, the new site has anti-robot technology built in and we are testing and watching the new system at the moment.