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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: Paul2886 on September 19, 2008, 01:33:19 PM

Title: Fire retardency of curtains and bedding in care homes
Post by: Paul2886 on September 19, 2008, 01:33:19 PM
Am I thinking on the same lines as you folks out there.
Do we really need fire retardent curtains and bedding within the residents rooms if we can: lower the risk of fire within the room to a very acceptable level, ensure automatic detection is within the room, the room is a non-smoking room, the room is fitted with a FD30s door held open, if required, by an approved device and coupled with good staff fire training.
I always advocate that escape routes and other common areas have furnishings and fittings that meet the current standards of fire retardency but not necessarily the residents rooms owing to the on-going washing and laundry procedures to maintain the fire retardency.
Title: Fire retardency of curtains and bedding in care homes
Post by: wee brian on September 19, 2008, 01:52:47 PM
No.  Preventing fires should be top of the list.
Title: Fire retardency of curtains and bedding in care homes
Post by: Paul2886 on September 19, 2008, 02:02:50 PM
Quote from: wee brian
No.  Preventing fires should be top of the list.
Is that 'no' we don't need it or 'no' you don't agree. If no, you don't agree then just to say the risk of a fire has been reduced considerably by removing all heat sources like bedside lamps with naked bulbs, trailing extension leads and ensuring the room is non smoking
Title: Fire retardency of curtains and bedding in care homes
Post by: kurnal on September 19, 2008, 04:25:56 PM
I agree with you Paul.  But never had to argue the case yet.
Title: Fire retardency of curtains and bedding in care homes
Post by: wee brian on September 19, 2008, 10:57:56 PM
Quote from: Paulm2886
Am I thinking on the same lines as you folks out there.
no
Title: Fire retardency of curtains and bedding in care homes
Post by: Paul2886 on September 20, 2008, 09:17:41 AM
Quote from: wee brian
Quote from: Paulm2886
Am I thinking on the same lines as you folks out there.
no
Blanket statements like that are not in my opinion fire risk assessments but taking the easy route of applying the book. Almost the same as just ticking boxes. Do you then ask to see evidence of correct laundry procedures of the curtains and bedding in residents rooms when undertaking a fire risk assessment.
Title: Fire retardency of curtains and bedding in care homes
Post by: kurnal on September 20, 2008, 10:09:01 AM
In a well managed home with correct fire separation and management as you describe Paul, for a resident who does not smoke I cannot see how fire retardant sheets and bedding contribute to the fire safety of relevant persons. Yes as an additional risk control measure if  someone is likely to smoke in their room then it is essential.

Half the people who get excited about this sort of trivia on their enforcement inspections havn't the gumption to check more important things like whether the fire alarm is correctly configured and installed , whether the escape lighting works on sub circuit failure, whether cavity barries and compartmentation are in place within voids and most important of all whether the emergency plan has a prayer of a chance to work in an emergency.

Grandma's duvet cover is an easy hit for them.
Title: Fire retardency of curtains and bedding in care homes
Post by: Paul2886 on September 20, 2008, 03:53:34 PM
Kurnal,
Absolutely agree with your every word regarding this matter and sure that most fire risk assessors of experience would as well.
Title: Fire retardency of curtains and bedding in care homes
Post by: wee brian on September 22, 2008, 09:53:47 AM
I hear what you are saying but. Lots of them do smoke. Preventing fires should be our first port of call.
Title: Fire retardency of curtains and bedding in care homes
Post by: terry martin on September 22, 2008, 01:56:13 PM
I'm with Kurnal on this. specific control measure for the smoker maybe. but for everyone is a bit OTT. again as Kurnal says their are far more risk critical things to worry about.

and better safety measures the RP could be spending his hard earned cash on
Title: Fire retardency of curtains and bedding in care homes
Post by: Paul2886 on September 22, 2008, 04:00:24 PM
Quote from: wee brian
I hear what you are saying but. Lots of them do smoke. Preventing fires should be our first port of call.
Isn't that what we were saying that it is risk assessed and not about ticking a box cos thats what the 'book' says. Now here's a good case for insisting on fire retardent bedding and curtains:

The resident smokes within the room
There is no smoke detection within the room
The room is not fitted with a fire door
Extension leads are trailed across the floor
No free standing convector heaters

Even before asking for fire resistant bedding etc I would prefer to remedy the above points

Simple eh, nothing scientific about things
Title: Fire retardency of curtains and bedding in care homes
Post by: wee brian on September 22, 2008, 10:50:59 PM
Trouble is that you can't stop them smoking.

How do you sort the FR bedding from the other stuff?

Would you provide AFD rather than prevent the fire in the first place?
Title: Fire retardency of curtains and bedding in care homes
Post by: kurnal on September 22, 2008, 11:35:39 PM
My experience is that smokers are a tiny minority nowadays- of several homes I look after only one has a resident who is allowed to smoke in their room. Others have their fags and lighter held in the office.
Title: Fire retardency of curtains and bedding in care homes
Post by: wee brian on September 23, 2008, 09:20:14 AM
Sounds like Matron is doing her stuff.

My concern is that (according to this report) a significant number of fatalities in this type of premises occur where smokers set fire to themselves or their bedding/chair etc.

http://www.bre.co.uk/filelibrary/consultations/partB/Sprinkler_Effectiveness_in_Care_Homes.pdf

Taking their fags away from them would be better but I'm not sure its always viable.
Title: Fire retardency of curtains and bedding in care homes
Post by: Mike Buckley on September 23, 2008, 12:51:57 PM
The problem with taking the fags away is the smokers will find ways to get round their problem (no fags) and create another problem (fags and matches hidden and secret smoking dens).

Even though the new law makes it more difficult to smoke I just have to look at the penguins huddled round the smoking shelter in the middle of January to see how hard it is for some people to stop.

Quote from a smoker " Giving up smoking is easy, I've done it hundreds of times"
Title: Fire retardency of curtains and bedding in care homes
Post by: Midland Retty on September 23, 2008, 02:40:31 PM
I accept that surupticious smoking can be a problem. However the staff should be aware of which residents smoke and those who do not.

Furthermore in a well managed home individual assessments will be carried out on all service users.

This can help to identify those residents who are likely to adhere to the no smoking policy or for want of a better phrase "have all their marbles" and are responsible enough to smoke where and when they should do so as opposed to smoke illicitly

The only time I've known illicit smoking to be a problem is in establishments for the mentally impaired.

Whilst the service users in such places should be monitored closely and their ciggies / lighters conphiscated and kept in the office so that they have to ask a member of staff to smoke it has been known sometimes for friends or visiting relatives to pop down the shop and get fresh supplies for them which are smuggled in stashed about their person etc.

Yet with AFD in individual rooms anybody smoking in their rooms will be found out pretty quickly - I did know of one mentally disturbed service user who hid in her wardrobe , lit a ciggie and set the whole contents on fire.!

It was a rare case, in what is a unusual environment and the correct fire precautions meant that the fire did not spread beyond the room of origin.