FireNet Community
FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Technical Advice => Topic started by: Davo on October 17, 2008, 03:31:55 PM
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Company A installed this (350 plus outputs) fire alarm three years ago as they had our contract.
Now Company B has it.
Company A's claims OP, indeed the software is but you need a special lead to download from the panel so Company B cannot do this. (I doubt if the lead is for sale)
What do the experts think?
We just had a what appeared to be a serious fault on the same panel.
Company B had to call out Company A
It turned out that one of the two reset options inside the panel has an intermittent software fault which disables the sounders (!!!). Unless you count 'em out and count 'em back you would not be aware of this
touch wood all sorted now, phew!
davo
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Still could be open protocol.
What manufacturer of panel have you got and we could answer instantly as to open or closed protocol.
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Company A installed this (350 plus outputs) fire alarm three years ago as they had our contract.
Now Company B has it.
Company A's claims OP, indeed the software is but you need a special lead to download from the panel so Company B cannot do this. (I doubt if the lead is for sale)
What do the experts think?
We just had a what appeared to be a serious fault on the same panel.
Company B had to call out Company A
It turned out that one of the two reset options inside the panel has an intermittent software fault which disables the sounders (!!!). Unless you count 'em out and count 'em back you would not be aware of this
touch wood all sorted now, phew!
davo
You need a download lead for all panels as some stage for software changes.Give us a clue of the manufacturer (although the count them out and count them in again disablements sounds like a Menvier to me)
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Buzzard905
The lead is different from all the others or so I am lead to believe.
Company A has the same initial as our leading poster!
davo
An anagram of COPTER??Either way,the Advanced lead is different to the one for Morley,the Kidde lead is different to the Kentec one but they are all open.
However,if it is the one I have opted for I wouldn't say it's too open (IMO of course!).
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Buzzard905
Eddik!
davo
Thats not the initial of the top poster (by quantity!!).
Ahh,DIKED used to be good at supplying leads/software to third party fire companies (at a cost of course!).
Easy enough to work on and it's open protocol
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Indeed...
Anyone could potentially purchase a panel and communitions lead from them to work on the panel.
So they are correct, open protocol
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You would be better to spec your panels when you have work done , and then you wont have any problems.
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Times are hard, Company B just laid off 53.
Company B said they could work on Company A's products - the contract is a few months old now- but the engineer does not have a lead!
davo
Company B shouldn't really have taken on Company A's equipment if they are not prepared to spend £50 or so on a lead if they already have the spftware.
Can I be company C?
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I would question how Company B were chosen to take over a 350 plus site without the knowledge and training to be able to ensure the system is fully operational.
Did they not raise this in their initial take over visit.
Of the OP systems that would suit the site (350 plus) out there I dont know of any that you cant get a lead for them, you may (should) have to go on a training course but these are generally free.
Would the manufacturer be from Kent ? Not sure about the count them out and in but autolearns impossible without a lead and software.
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Prof K is our leading poster, in every respect. And until someone else is prepared to wear the crocodile skin boots, nothing will change.
So knowing that K is the first letter and the clue is eddik, it should be easy to work out!
How much easier does Davo have to make it!
A lead is just a lead unless it has a dongle in it.
If it has no dongle, then surely it is only a matter of getting the right style plugs and wiring the Tx, Rx and Ov to the correct pins.
What is so difficult about that?
Unless you have a hard dongle! (oh arr missus!)
p.s. Why has the Prof. started using a gay flying pig as his avatar?
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You would be better to spec your panels when you have work done , and then you wont have any problems.
Indeed that's the first thing, that needs to be done first you take over a new site for maintenance..., why wating till faults come up on panel, and then you start to look for software and the lead... etc ?
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I would question how Company B were chosen to take over a 350 plus site without the knowledge and training to be able to ensure the system is fully operational.
Did they not raise this in their initial take over visit.
Of the OP systems that would suit the site (350 plus) out there I dont know of any that you cant get a lead for them, you may (should) have to go on a training course but these are generally free.
Would the manufacturer be from Kent ? Not sure about the count them out and in but autolearns impossible without a lead and software.
Indeed because most companies I have known they work on a basis of; just go and do it...etc
Thinking money money..., its the legislation that brought up people from every disciplines to invest in fire alarm industry because it becomes now a good fashion.... (Money is in fire industry...) while in fact things has to be done by the book just like in other disciplines...
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In my understanding it's only the 'legislation' and/or 'the standards' that could be deeply involved with the issue of open and closed protocols to sort it out for ever, especially now with the new fashion one; called 'managed protocol' which means open for sales but closed for using its own software and lead...etc. even they say it can use open protocol devices such as Apollo and Hochiki,… it’s in fact another way of making money… etc but not sorting out the main problem of open and closed protocols…etc
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(Money is in fire industry...)
Particularly if you are in the closed protocol market !!!
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Prof K is our leading poster, in every respect. And until someone else is prepared to wear the crocodile skin boots, nothing will change.
So knowing that K is the first letter and the clue is eddik, it should be easy to work out!
How much easier does Davo have to make it!
A lead is just a lead unless it has a dongle in it.
If it has no dongle, then surely it is only a matter of getting the right style plugs and wiring the Tx, Rx and Ov to the correct pins.
What is so difficult about that?
Unless you have a hard dongle! (oh arr missus!)
p.s. Why has the Prof. started using a gay flying pig as his avatar?
I think you'll find I worked it out and no KIDD(e)ING!!
Prof K may be the top poster in all senses of the word other than total number of posts!
Comp B may not have software either but if they do there be plenty in these parts who could give the pin out for the lead.
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(Money is in fire industry...)
Particularly if you are in the closed protocol market !!!
Only after you have bought the kit and you end up with one of the US companies!!
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I normally suggest open protocol, but one contractor pointed out that means ant Tom,Dick & Harry can get the bits and service it/alter it regardless of their competence and said that I should consider managed protocol as it still gives 50-odd companies to get quotes for servicing from, but all are competent as they have to be approved to access the protocols.
Was offering me Gent's kit for this.
Sounds good in principle, but where's the catch?
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I normally suggest open protocol, but one contractor pointed out that means ant Tom,Dick & Harry can get the bits and service it/alter it regardless of their competence and said that I should consider managed protocol as it still gives 50-odd companies to get quotes for servicing from, but all are competent as they have to be approved to access the protocols.
Was offering me Gent's kit for this.
Sounds good in principle, but where's the catch?
Some "closed" protocol companies use Tom,Dick and Harry anyway so I would question this contractors motives (I work for a closed protocol company just to declare my interest)!
As far as maintenance goes (testing and rectifying faults on "lik for like" equipment it isn't necessary to use an approved dealer or valued partner (depending on the terminology used).I know of a lot of very competant guys who could show the in house guys a trick or two.
Catch comes when you need to modify the system (programming,device type etc.) is that you are tied to these 50 or so (sounds a high figure to me) companies who are going to be setting similar costs (or am I just cynical?).Otherwise if you have to get the original company back they will hit you with a premium rate for labour and equipment (that is after they have harranged you into dumping your service company for them for the very reason mentioned!).
Rant over - beer calling.
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.......I think you'll find I worked it out and no KIDD(e)ING!!
Prof K may be the top poster in all senses of the word other than total number of posts!.....
Buzz, it was others that hadn't got it, not you.
According to site stats, Prof. K has the highest number of posts, so I'm confused by your comment.
Has he fiddled the stats?
Is he going to lose his hero status with me?
Will he have to give the crocodile skin boots back?
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.......I think you'll find I worked it out and no KIDD(e)ING!!
Prof K may be the top poster in all senses of the word other than total number of posts!.....
Buzz, it was others that hadn't got it, not you.
According to site stats, Prof. K has the highest number of posts, so I'm confused by your comment.
Has he fiddled the stats?
Is he going to lose his hero status with me?
Will he have to give the crocodile skin boots back?
I stand corrected nd a thousand apologies - I was searching ascending!!!
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Why closed and open protocol issue couldn't be sorted?
Read the story of uneven road joke. Uneven road joke is applied to every day’s life:
One day some Mayor had serious complaints from citizens about an uneven road which caused so many accidents, deaths and injuries…, this uneven road had so many deep holes so the on going and incoming cars wouldn’t realized them, only when approaching them, so every one wants to pass first, when trying to avoid them …, which causes so many disrupts, accidents, deaths and injuries…etc
The clever solution of the Mayor was to put a permanent (24h) ambulance close to every single dangerous hole on that road, so like that it would be faster to bring up injured people to hospital before it will be to late…etc
But this didn’t cut down the statistic’s figures of injuries and deaths, since the ambulance itself can't drive faster to hospital on that uneven road, so the issue went on till the Prime Minister, and his solution was to built up a hospital near every single dangerous hole, so like that it will be more faster to deal with all injuries once they occur…etc
Finally, this solution found to be great, since it made those holes in fact very useful; they created jobs…, helped in economy growth, and raised up income TAX…etc
The Guy who said in the first place, why not repairing this bloody road in once, was found to be the most idiot ever!
End of Story :D
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Why closed and open protocol issue couldn't be sorted?
Read the story of uneven road joke. Uneven road joke is applied to every day’s life:
One day some Mayor had serious complaints from citizens about an uneven road which caused so many accidents, deaths and injuries…, this uneven road had so many deep holes so the on going and incoming cars wouldn’t realized them, only when approaching them, so every one wants to pass first, when trying to avoid them …, which causes so many disrupts, accidents, deaths and injuries…etc
The clever solution of the Mayor was to put a permanent (24h) ambulance close to every single dangerous hole on that road, so like that it would be faster to bring up injured people to hospital before it will be to late…etc
But this didn’t cut down the statistic’s figures of injuries and deaths, since the ambulance itself can't drive faster to hospital in that uneven road, so the issue went on till the Prime Minister, and his solution was to built up a hospital near every single dangerous hole, so like that it will be more faster to deal with all injuries once they occur…etc
Finally, this solution found to be great, since it made those holes in fact very useful; they created jobs…, helped in economy growth, and raised up income TAX…etc
The Guy who said in the first place, why not repairing this uneven road in once, is found to be the most idiot ever!
End of Story :D
Benz - any chance of what you been smoking?????
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Why closed and open protocol issue couldn't be sorted?
Read the story of uneven road joke. Uneven road joke is applied to every day’s life:
One day some Mayor had serious complaints from citizens about an uneven road which caused so many accidents, deaths and injuries…, this uneven road had so many deep holes so the on going and incoming cars wouldn’t realized them, only when approaching them, so every one wants to pass first, when trying to avoid them …, which causes so many disrupts, accidents, deaths and injuries…etc
The clever solution of the Mayor was to put a permanent (24h) ambulance close to every single dangerous hole on that road, so like that it would be faster to bring up injured people to hospital before it will be to late…etc
But this didn’t cut down the statistic’s figures of injuries and deaths, since the ambulance itself can't drive faster to hospital in that uneven road, so the issue went on till the Prime Minister, and his solution was to built up a hospital near every single dangerous hole, so like that it will be more faster to deal with all injuries once they occur…etc
Finally, this solution found to be great, since it made those holes in fact very useful; they created jobs…, helped in economy growth, and raised up income TAX…etc
The Guy who said in the first place, why not repairing this bloody road in once, was found to be the most idiot ever!
End of Story :D
Benz - any chance of what you been smoking?????
No thing at all :D
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I understand that the contract is up for grabs again next year. Will insist on checking the wording as per advice given.
80+ alarms and me giving grief, what more could an engineer want?
davo
Just include a clause stating that the successful candidate must be able to fully support all equipment in relation to modifications and spare parts.You could also extend it to include a maximum time to remedy any fault due to equipment failure (ie - parts at hand).
Allen
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Why closed and open protocol issue couldn't be sorted?
Read the story of uneven road joke. Uneven road joke is applied to every day’s life:
One day some Mayor had serious complaints from citizens about an uneven road which caused so many accidents, deaths and injuries…, this uneven road had so many deep holes so the on going and incoming cars wouldn’t realized them, only when approaching them, so every one wants to pass first, when trying to avoid them …, which causes so many disrupts, accidents, deaths and injuries…etc
The clever solution of the Mayor was to put a permanent (24h) ambulance close to every single dangerous hole on that road, so like that it would be faster to bring up injured people to hospital before it will be to late…etc
But this didn’t cut down the statistic’s figures of injuries and deaths, since the ambulance itself can't drive faster to hospital on that uneven road, so the issue went on till the Prime Minister, and his solution was to built up a hospital near every single dangerous hole, so like that it will be more faster to deal with all injuries once they occur…etc
Finally, this solution found to be great, since it made those holes in fact very useful; they created jobs…, helped in economy growth, and raised up income TAX…etc
The Guy who said in the first place, why not repairing this bloody road in once, was found to be the most idiot ever!
End of Story :D
The second episode of ‘uneven road joke’:
The Guy who was defending the opinion of repairing that uneven road in once, he was one of its victims, he was then taken to hospital unconscious, and remained in that status for a while.
One day the doctor said, he is dead and there is very less chance he could survive back, he was then brought up to the mortuary, and suddenly, he woke up in the mortuary.
As usual who been working there follows the doctor's decision, he pushed his head down by force, and fit him alive back into the freezer while saying loudly:
The doctor said you are dead…, you are dead, OK!…, (http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr87/BenzFerari/violent11.gif) and locked him off :lol:
End of Episode