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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: terry martin on October 23, 2008, 11:30:45 AM
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I am currently assisting a sheltered housing scheme.
They are having problems with their occupants letting unauthorised persons into the scheme via the fire exits by misusing the push button override button
At present the have a standards electromagnetic set up with push button override linked to the FA panel
They are using one particular door because of it's distance away from the 24hr manned office. by the time the alarm alerts the staff and they get to the door, everyone is gone.
Does anyone know how they can overcome this with either a revised system or management procedures?
My initial thoughts are CCTV, it would not stop them, but at least you would know who they are.
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Remove the push button to override and just have have the break glass unit to unlock the door in the event of an emergency.
Can you describe the "unauthorised" element of your above post? Are we talking residents letting in people who shouldn't be on the scheme or them secretely letting in their old lady friends for illegal whist drives?
If they are letting in their own guests through the back door I dont really see an enourmous issue? The old folk tend to want to use the shortest route, so this is an issue accross most sheltered schemes in the country.
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sorry, i should of been a bit clearer.This is a scheme for homeless people most of which are alcoholics and/or drug users
changing the button for a break glass would make no difference, they would just break the glass.
unauthorised people i refer to are homeless residents letting their friends in to sleep, letting in their dealer etc etc.
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You can get an item called a stopper that will fit over the break glass unit, they are available with a built in sounder that may act as a deterrent.
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If you get rid of the green break glass over ride box and rely on the fire alarm system only to release the mag lock ( with a couple of checks to ensure it is as resilient as it can be) will they still smash the red fire alarm call point instead?
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If you get rid of the green break glass over ride box and rely on the fire alarm system only to release the mag lock ( with a couple of checks to ensure it is as resilient as it can be) will they still smash the red fire alarm call point instead?
would that be ok? what if someone wanted to genuinely use the MofE. would you need a sign? if so, the problem will still be there, because they would still know that if they break the glass they can get their mate in
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What about CCTV and a PA system between the manned desk and the doors location?
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would that be ok? what if someone wanted to genuinely use the MofE. would you need a sign? if so, the problem will still be there, because they would still know that if they break the glass they can get their mate in
It may be ok. It depends on your assessment of the the risk. Such a solution would not conform to BS recommendations but a BS is just that, its not mandatory.
If you find that the risks arising from unauthorised persons accessing the building is greater than the possible risk in a fire situation then it could be a legal and appropriate step to take.
There are other risk control measures you can apply- to ensure that building users are aware of how the door can be opened, the importance of raising the alarm before evacuating the building and the consequences of abuse. But as nearythere says you do need to consider all other options as well and come up with a solution that reduces the rsk as far as is reasonably practicable
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In a large scheme similar to this that we operate in Brighton, we simply had a cctv camera installed to assertain who was breaking the rules regarding undesireable and simply evicted them after one warning.
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In a large scheme similar to this that we operate in Brighton, we simply had a cctv camera installed to assertain who was breaking the rules regarding undesireable and simply evicted them after one warning.
i think that is the perfect solution really. considering the nature of the occupants, with the best will in the world no management proceedures could be relied upon.
thanks
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It was a very effective management change and since the 1st eviction has had a 100% success rate
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Hi Terry
Do the final exits lead directly to an open area such as a drive with easy access to the road or pavement or other public area? Or does the property lend itself to be easily or secured and enclosed around its boundaries?
The reason I ask is that you may find it advantageous to look at security measures around the building rather on the final exit doors themselves.
For instance if the final exit door leads into say a large drive way side passage way or garden is it possible to install fencing / gates to prevent anyone wandering up to the final exit door in the first place?
That way persons can still escape outside of the building in the event of fire to a place of comparitive safety whilst a member of staff opens the secured gate which leads to ultimate safety. And on the other hand it prevents the residents letting in their chums because its too much hassle to try and compromise the security gate
Im sure you probably have already thought of this, perhaps the layout of the premises / land in question does not lend itself to such measures, I was simply thinking out loud!
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Midland.
The issues you tend to get in and around the homeless style supported living institutions is that no matter what security you utilise the buggers will get over, round and through it.
We had 10 foot walls with barbed wire and glass glued to it with anti climb paint etc and still the persistant getting your mates in the back door continued
The only thing you can yuse is their fear of authority and the street. Threaten eviction to these people and theyu will toe the line.
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Fair comment Big T
It's what we did at a similar property on my patch and it worked in that instance.
But as you point out often nothing is a deterent
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Audible alarms. The great British public hates to make a scene by creating a lot of noise.
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Audible alarms. The great British public hates to make a scene by creating a lot of noise.
True, True
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Audible alarms. The great British public hates to make a scene by creating a lot of noise.
Does that also go for Benedicts on a Saturday night CT?
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No, but do note I said Great Britain not United Kingdom.
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No, but do note I said Great Britain not United Kingdom.
Good escape Houdini.
So what you are saying is that when you are at home you behave like a saint but when in Belfast you are a bit of a devil. What do you drink in Benedicts that turns you into a rampant erectile?