FireNet Community
FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => General Interest => Topic started by: John Webb on November 06, 2008, 02:23:43 PM
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I've posted this here as it would seem to cut across several areas both technically and operationally.
Just after 3pm yesterday at a building site in Welwyn Garden City there was an explosion of a gas cylinder which killed one person, seriously injured another and less seriously injured a few others.
The police spokesman on the ITV news this lunchtime said the accident had occured while the cylinders were being installed in the building 'as part of the building's fire protection' which is why I am posting this topic.
The building has been under construction for much of this year as I've passed it a number of times and replaces a former industrial building on the site. The new building is, according to the police spokesman, to be an IT communication centre.
The BBC website report http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/7711731.stm mentions a fire but none of the live reports has.
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Additional information from the 'London Evening Standard' today.
For some reason the valve was sheared off one of six 47kg cylinders being installed for fire protection purposes while the cylinders were being moved. The cylinder became a 'missile' and in flying around the building knocked the valves off the other cylinders which also took off, some ending up to 40m away from their original position. One man was hit and killed; six others were injured, one seriously while trying to get away from the cylinders. There was no fire or explosion as such. Police and HSE are investigating.
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I know cylinder valves can be notoriously vulnerable to a side blow and can shear off - most likely to be nothing wrong with the cylinders and more to do with their handling, but of course we we won't know until the investigation ends.
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Ladies and Gents,
I have edited 2 posts on this subject. In both I have removed the reference to a particular brand name. The BBC article did not name the manufacturer of the cylinder and I am reluctant to do so on here unless it comes from a verifiable source. i.e. I don't want to get sued by a fire supression company for wrongly naming their product as the type that was involved in this incident.
Please note that many generic terms for argon based gasses are brand names and please don't mention any unless you can source where you got your information from.
Thanks.
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Dear Chris,
Your edit noted and the reason why you did it. I do hasten to reassure you I would not mention any specific brand unless I had seen it in public - and in this case I have no private contacts with anyone involved so could not have got the information any other way.
Although I did not video any of the interviews with the police spokesman I'm pretty sure he mentioned the name as well because that's the only source that was available to me at the time I'd written the first post. But the Evening Standard article tonight did specifically name the gas involved......!
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OK fair enough. Although I still worry that people use that term like "sellotape" or "hoover" when they mean "sticky tape" and "vaccum cleaner".
I think we can have the discussion without the brand names, so if you agree with that, then it might be simpler. I'm not criticising or complaining, it's just the hazard of an internet forum is that they find it easier to sue "us" than "you".
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Sounds like the transportation covers had been removed before final installation Somebody somewhere won't be having a good nights sleep.
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Another case perhaps of human behaviour going in a slightly different direction to that which is wanted or required.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7718156.stm
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Sounds like the transportation covers had been removed before final installation Somebody somewhere won't be having a good nights sleep.
Indeed, luckily not me, hopefully I haven't worked for that chap…, who said the docket end up in the bin, otherwise nothing to back me :)
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It still in your hand, of not to be in the way of the flooding, since incident are part of our life, they happened and still happening some where else, and will happen some where else for ever... etc
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7718156.stm
anyone know what extinguishant was used?
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7718156.stm
anyone know what extinguishant was used?
An inert variant.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7718156.stm
anyone know what extinguishant was used?
Freon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7718156.stm
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The BBC seems to use the term Freon to mean any vaporising liquid agent or inert gas.....
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Really? It is a trade name. Seems very unprofessional of them.
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I heard the term Freon mentioned by the BBC yesterday when reporting the accidental release of fire extinguishing system on a Russian submarine in the Pacific, (killing 20 crew members and injuring several more).
How odd that this Freon has been involved in two totally separate yet fatal incidents.
I assume the incident on the Russian Sub asphyxiated the poor souls, if so then this Freon is a far cry from extinguishing suppresion agents I have had dealings with, (nitrogen /air mix) that will provide a 12% oxygen breathable atmosphere and this is deemed low enough to not support the propogation of flame therefore extinguishing any fire, (it should also be noted that any such system must be integrated with visual and audible alarms before activation and a method of ventilating the media post-application)
I may be a bit hazy on my distant recollections but I also remember Freon being used as a gas vapourising to its liquid state in large industrial fridge plants etc
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Freon is used in the auxillary power units on 737's as the extinguishant -
There is only one APU fire bottle, despite the fact that the handle can be turned in either direction! It is filled with Freon (the extinguishant) and Nitrogen (the propellant) at about 800psi. When the fire handle is turned, the squib is fired which breaks the diaphragm on the bottle, the pressure of the nitrogen then forces the freon into the APU compartment which suffocates the fire.
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I have been told: WGY was Argonite. The installer (sub contracted by Kidde) was installing the last of 16 bottles, over balanced and the bottle fell hitting the others.
All fell some losing the valves including the original one which shot off as did a number of others "like a line of torpedos". The initial victim was a plumber 2 rooms away.
None had been battoned to the wall and all had their caps off.
Kidde's top brass were brought in by the HSE on Sunday.
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I have been told: WGY was Argonite. The installer (sub contracted by Kidde) was installing the last of 16 bottles, over balanced and the bottle fell hitting the others.
All fell some losing the valves including the original one which shot off as did a number of others "like a line of torpedos". The initial victim was a plumber 2 rooms away.
None had been battoned to the wall and all had their caps off.
Kidde's top brass were brought in by the HSE on Sunday.
How many times did they follow this procedure and this didn't happen?
A terrible but avoidable accident.
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http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2008/11/06/worker-killed-in-accident-at-uk-data-center-site/
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Gents,
I'm sorry, but I cannot accept speculation/rumours/"I heard from a mate" about things in this thread. If you want to tell the forum about something you read about, please include the source. If you have original/new research on it, please put in your full contact details including home address so that the lawyers approach yourselves rather than FireNet - trust you get my point.
Sorry/thanks,
Chris.
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In the last building I worked in I was looking after over 100 suppression systems on the one site.
We had a system discharge due to an aircon unit pipe melting.
When the system discharged the horizontal manifold all the bottles connected broke away from the vertical manifold which went on to supply the room, this in turn made the entire bottle bank come away from the wall and fortunately only moved about a foot across the room.
The system was installed by a company who I shall not mention, but in short there was about 20 bottles attached to a unistrut which was fasened to a wooden bord which was suppossed to be bolted to the wall, But was infact fixed to the wall with plaster board fixings.
Makes you wonder how some companies can get away with it?
Once I work out how to post pictures I shall put a few up, It puts things into perspective.
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Use photobucket or send them me & I will post them up for you.