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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Technical Advice => Topic started by: Benzerari on November 23, 2008, 12:17:38 AM
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It's found to be that the combination of; Heat, Oxygen and Fuel (combustible material) make fire..., but how much of each? In terms of percentage!
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God in Heaven!!!!
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Benz Its found that the combination of knowledge, training and experience make up a fire alarm engineer. But how much of each? In terms of percentage!
PS I will have one of whatever you are drinking! ;D
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It's found to be that the combination of; Heat, Oxygen and Fuel (combustible material) make fire..., but how much of each? In terms of percentage!
what was the comination ratio of the mad traingle you had last night. Drink , cannabis and a computer....
do you sit up on saturday nights worrying about such stuff or are you bored of the X Factor?
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:'(
Benz
I'll try and simplify it in case the exotic stuff hasn't worn off this early
The amount of heat needed depends on the type of fuel present eg 1 kilo of paper requires less than 1 kilo of wood
The amount of fuel only dictates how long the fire will burn
In relation to oxygen, normal air has 21%. Go below 16% and fire struggles, below 14% and the fire ceases.
davo
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Benz Its found that the combination of knowledge, training and experience make up a fire alarm engineer. But how much of each? In terms of percentage!
PS I will have one of whatever you are drinking! ;D
Double espresso ;D
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It's found to be that the combination of; Heat, Oxygen and Fuel (combustible material) make fire..., but how much of each? In terms of percentage!
what was the comination ratio of the mad traingle you had last night. Drink , cannabis and a computer....
do you sit up on saturday nights worrying about such stuff or are you bored of the X Factor?
It looks boring question at the beginning but in fact it isn't! :)
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:'(
Benz
I'll try and simplify it in case the exotic stuff hasn't worn off this early
The amount of heat needed depends on the type of fuel present eg 1 kilo of paper requires less than 1 kilo of wood
The amount of fuel only dictates how long the fire will burn
In relation to oxygen, normal air has 21%. Go below 16% and fire struggles, below 14% and the fire ceases.
davo
Good start Davo, this makes sense, and your answer just needs more refinements :)
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Benz,
you need to get out more.
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Fire = f (H, O, C) , means fire is function of heat, oxygen and combustible material
Where: H = Heat, O = Oxygen, C = Combustible material.
Heat: is quantified in degree centigrade or alternatively
Oxygen: is quantified with percentage of availability in the surrounding environment
Combustible material: is the remaining struggling point, therefore:
The question is: can combustibility be quantified and how? Any idea?
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Benz,
you need to get out more.
I am always out, I have just been on the moon watching Indian rockets landing on the moon, they have just set up a corner shop and (petrol station) sorry (oxygen station), it isn't that busy at the moment, but we never now what the future reveal 8)
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Hasn’t it move up one additional plane its now The Fire Tetrahedron?
(http://www.firesafe.org.uk/assets/images/firetria/firetri3.gif)
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Benz
any combustible material has a calorific value per unit of weight, fire loadings etc
Any more and you get to calculations algebra etc, far too boring on a sunday
davo
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Benz,
you need to get out more.
Leave him where he is. At least we can keep an eye on him. ;)
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Fire = f (H, O, C) , means fire is function of heat, oxygen and combustible material
Where: H = Heat, O = Oxygen, C = Combustible material.
Heat: is quantified in degree centigrade or alternatively
Oxygen: is quantified with percentage of availability in the surrounding environment
Combustible material: is the remaining struggling point, therefore:
The question is: can combustibility be quantified and how? Any idea?
But what about pyrotechnics?
Benz it just aint that simple. Get yourseld a basic text book on chemistry and combustion. The IFE do one with exactly that name.
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Benz,
you need to get out more.
Nice avatar wiz. Surprised to see you hat droops down at the end though. Thought you could fix that with a spell. Matron said we had something in common but wouldn't specify what it was.
Leave him where he is. At least we can keep an eye on him. ;)
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Fire = f (H, O, C) , means fire is function of heat, oxygen and combustible material
Where: H = Heat, O = Oxygen, C = Combustible material.
Heat: is quantified in degree centigrade or alternatively
Oxygen: is quantified with percentage of availability in the surrounding environment
Combustible material: is the remaining struggling point, therefore:
The question is: can combustibility be quantified and how? Any idea?
But what about pyrotechnics?
Benz it just aint that simple. Get yourseld a basic text book on chemistry and combustion. The IFE do one with exactly that name.
Ehmm good idea
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Hasn’t it move up one additional plane its now The Fire Tetrahedron?
(http://www.firesafe.org.uk/assets/images/firetria/firetri3.gif)
What it says?
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Benz,
you need to get out more.
Leave him where he is. At least we can keep an eye on him. ;)
Big brother ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Benz
any combustible material has a calorific value per unit of weight, fire loadings etc
Any more and you get to calculations algebra etc, far too boring on a sunday
davo
Calorific unit, I think is to measure the heat of combustion delivered after combustion, it's an enery per volum unit 'J/m³', any other units to measure the combustibility of material relared more to its chemical characteristics
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God in Heaven!!!!
My tea just came out my nose I laughed so much, Thanks Colin just what I needed on a dark miserable Monday morning. ;D
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Hasn’t it move up one additional plane its now The Fire Tetrahedron?
(http://www.firesafe.org.uk/assets/images/firetria/firetri3.gif)
What it says?
It says you need more than just fuel, heat & oxygen for there to be a fire - you start getting into the realms of free radicals (not Trotskyite revolutionaries btw... ;D)
The halons and most dry powders extinguish by interfering with the chemical chain reaction of combustion & not the triangle - this is why potassium based powders are more effective than sodium based powders as potassium has a greater affnity for free radicals
I suggest you read Book 1 of the Manual of Firemanship or the equivalent section of it's replacement, the Fire Service Manual, for a good grounding in the basic physics & chemistry of combustion.
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Hasn’t it move up one additional plane its now The Fire Tetrahedron?
(http://www.firesafe.org.uk/assets/images/firetria/firetri3.gif)
What it says?
It says you need more than just fuel, heat & oxygen for there to be a fire - you start getting into the realms of free radicals (not Trotskyite revolutionaries btw... ;D)
The halons and most dry powders extinguish by interfering with the chemical chain reaction of combustion & not the triangle - this is why potassium based powders are more effective than sodium based powders as potassium has a greater affnity for free radicals
I suggest you read Book 1 of the Manual of Firemanship or the equivalent section of it's replacement, the Fire Service Manual, for a good grounding in the basic physics & chemistry of combustion.
I will ;)
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Benzo, when you are finished volume 1, read all the other volumes as well, then read War and Peace, and then the collected works of Shakespeare and the complete works of Robert Burns (as fire burns too). Let us know when you have finished the lot.
GregC, SHhhhhhhhhhhhhh dont tell Benzo about the tea. I can see a post from Benzo coming up discussing the hydraulics of what happened to your tea and the coeficient of friction of your nasal passages.
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Benzo, when you are finished volume 1, read all the other volumes as well, then read War and Peace, and then the collected works of Shakespeare and the complete works of Robert Burns (as fire burns too). Let us know when you have finished the lot.
GregC, SHhhhhhhhhhhhhh dont tell Benzo about the tea. I can see a post from Benzo coming up discussing the hydraulics of what happened to your tea and the coeficient of friction of your nasal passages.
I will but I will not tell any thing to GregC. ;D ;D ;D
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It's found to be that the combination of; Heat, Oxygen and Fuel (combustible material) make fire..., but how much of each? In terms of percentage!
When can I buy this book you are launching?
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It's found to be that the combination of; Heat, Oxygen and Fuel (combustible material) make fire..., but how much of each? In terms of percentage!
When can I buy this book you are launching?
When it's ready ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Benzo, when you are finished volume 1, read all the other volumes as well, then read War and Peace, and then the collected works of Shakespeare and the complete works of Robert Burns (as fire burns too). Let us know when you have finished the lot.
GregC, SHhhhhhhhhhhhhh dont tell Benzo about the tea. I can see a post from Benzo coming up discussing the hydraulics of what happened to your tea and the coeficient of friction of your nasal passages.
It's rather nasal coefficient of fluidity, when breathing through nose, rather through mouth ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hasn’t it move up one additional plane its now The Fire Tetrahedron?
(http://www.firesafe.org.uk/assets/images/firetria/firetri3.gif)
Still looks like a ‘triangle’ though, why then it doesn’t look like a ‘quadrangle’ layout, also where is the parameter of 'Time'?
At time '0' no thing will happen yet, but at certain time 'T' it initiates the fire combustion...!
Time ‘T’ depends on the combustible material, the quantity of oxygen available, the materials physical arrangement, the power and direction of wind or (air flow) in the surrounding area… etc
What do you think about?
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Hasn’t it move up one additional plane its now The Fire Tetrahedron?
(http://www.firesafe.org.uk/assets/images/firetria/firetri3.gif)
Still looks like a ‘triangle’ though, why then it doesn’t look like a ‘quadrangle’ layout, also where is the parameter of 'Time'?
At time '0' no thing will happen yet, but at certain time 'T' it initiates the fire combustion...!
Time ‘T’ depends on the combustible material, the quantity of oxygen available, the materials physical arrangement, the power and direction of wind or (air flow) in the surrounding area… etc
What do you think about?
Benzo
It is actually the square of fire. Fuel, oxygen, heat and senior fire officer. Remove any one away and the fire will go out.
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Benz it’s a tetrahedron, a four sided figure or a pyramid if you prefer and designed to simplify the explanation not complicate it. :'(
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Hasn’t it move up one additional plane its now The Fire Tetrahedron?
(http://www.firesafe.org.uk/assets/images/firetria/firetri3.gif)
Still looks like a ‘triangle’ though, why then it doesn’t look like a ‘quadrangle’ layout, also where is the parameter of 'Time'?
At time '0' no thing will happen yet, but at certain time 'T' it initiates the fire combustion...!
Time ‘T’ depends on the combustible material, the quantity of oxygen available, the materials physical arrangement, the power and direction of wind or (air flow) in the surrounding area… etc
What do you think about?
Benzo
It is actually the square of fire. Fuel, oxygen, heat and senior fire officer. Remove any one away and the fire will go out.
Senior fire officer?
What's sort of scarifies!
I wouldn't do it mate! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Benz it’s a tetrahedron, a four sided figure or a pyramid if you prefer and designed to simplify the explanation not complicate it. :'(
It's a three dimensional shape then, or fire pyramid, instead of fire triangle; add to it the 'Time' parameter, and see what it should give?
A three dimensional of five sided shape, or 'Pentahedron' this sort of galactic fire happens only in the outskirt of the universe, I haven’t seen it yet, but who ever saw it said, the color of fire is above infrared and below ultraviolet… etc, also it doesn't burn straight away, but may cause cancer..., which may put fire fighter at serious risks. It’s called the
‘Cold Fire’
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D