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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: AJ on December 03, 2008, 04:55:25 PM
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Gentlemen and Ladies.
This my first foray into the realms of the Fire Net Forum is there anyone out there that can point me in the direction of info on Unwanted Fire Signals. This is yet another task I have been given.
AJ
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Unwanted fire alarm is actually a big struggling issue, is there any specific subject you are aiming to deal with?
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I have been tasked with approaching premises that are constant offenders (just to coin a term) to try and enforce them into reducing UWFS so at present I am trying to gather as much information as possible. It seems that my brigade at least seems to want to go down the avenues of enforcing every issue. This is something that I have always struggled with. I believe education is a far better approach.
AJ
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Hi AJ
Welcome to the forums :)
I'm sure alot of the gang here will be able to assist with your query...
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hat type of premises are you having problems with? is there a concentration of Unwanted Fire Signals (UwFS) in one particular area for instance?
Generally UwFS can be caused by several factors. Incorrectly sited smoke detectors are a common culprit, thripps / dust in detector heads is another. Older detector heads can become 'over sensitised' or simply spring up faults due to old age!.
The thing to do is look at where you are getting the UwFS (are they in similar types of rooms or environments for instance). Then consider why they might be occuring.
A hotel I dealt with for example suffered from several UwFS a day. Steam from the en suite bath rooms would set off smoke detectors in bedrooms (the guest would take a shower open the door from the bathroom into bedroom and set off the detector) As a result the smoke detectors were moved further away from the bathroom door and it solved the problem
We were also called many times to a sheltered home responding to fire alarm activations. Quite often we found the detectors had activated purely because of dust!
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CFOA have recently issued a document on false alarms and UwFS, you may wish to go to there site and download it for information as you research. You are obviously aware that there is a differenc between a false alarm, something that can be managed, and is a fire safety issue, and UwFS that are an operational issue regarding attendance and whether FRS will or will not.
The False Alarm bit includes seek and search times, changing detector heads for different (providing the system will take the change), changing working routines and many other bits that others will add. happy reading.
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I have been tasked with approaching premises that are constant offenders (just to coin a term) to try and enforce them into reducing UWFS so at present I am trying to gather as much information as possible. It seems that my brigade at least seems to want to go down the avenues of enforcing every issue. This is something that I have always struggled with. I believe education is a far better approach.
AJ
AJ,
It seems quite incredible that your employers are not furnishing you with the information that you need. Equaly disappointing is that they/you are jumping into enforcement before education.
The solution must be to proactivly get people properly designing, installing and using their fire alarm systems rather than reactivly punishing them after they have not done so.
Blunt enforcement will result in people disconnecting their signalling and then an increase in the size of fires and all the nasty consequences that follow.
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Seeing as this landed on me today I have not really had the time to research the premises. All I can say at the moment is that it will be the SW1 post codes in Westminster. And that incorporates every type of premises. But the advice I am getting is helpful. UWFS is a new field to me,licensing is my field but onwards and upwards yet another string to my bow
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Dont worry my approcah will be the education route. To be fair they will provide me with further info I have a meeting set up to discuss the issue. I am not one to take something on without the information to do the job
AJ
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AJ,
I admire your openness. Not wishing to be a spoil sport, but please note FireNet is a public forum and some employers might be less than happy with your very candid illustrations their daft ways. It wouldn't take a genious to work out who you work for.
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Many thanks if I have given that impression it was not my intention. I have excellent backing from my employer I am just after other avenues to explore to gather further information.
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Have a look at these previous threads may be of some use.
http://forum.fire.org.uk/index.php?topic=46.0
http://forum.fire.org.uk/index.php?topic=808.0
http://www.bucksfire.gov.uk/BucksFire/News/Unwantedfiresignalsdownagain.htm it may be worth giving Malcolm Brightman a bell
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Definately go take a look at the CFOA policy.
The more people using it and referencing it the better.
Brush up on your Fire Alarm mojo with BS 5839.
Depending on the type of premises you can find information in the government publication guides written in "plain english" ofr your everyday responsible person.
I hear also MOE are releasing a small training guide giving an overview of the topic this december. May be useful in any presentations.
Regards
DA
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http://www.bsi-global.com/upload/Product%20Services/Fire/NEW%20CFOA%20DOC%20SEPT%2008.pdf
Latest CFOA guidance for UwFS
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BSI and they are not charging for it ;D
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Interesting addition of basically... "Go check if there really is a fire before ringing us"... And potential use of enforcement powers as a solution.
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False alarms deserve to have a master degree level sort of research, one of our hospitals (customers) got every single day visits from fire fighters, 3 to 6 times a day for only false alarms...
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False alarms deserve to have a master degree level sort of research, one of our hospitals (customers) got every single day visits from fire fighters, 3 to 6 times a day for only false alarms...
Why? There must be a reason- what are they doing about it?
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False alarms deserve to have a master degree level sort of research, one of our hospitals (customers) got every single day visits from fire fighters, 3 to 6 times a day for only false alarms...
Why? There must be a reason- what are they doing about it?
It's all sort of reasons, what you may think about, and what you may never think...! huge site to monitor with more than 160 fire alarm systems...
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Maybe so benz but six times a day is 2100 times per year so would only be acceptable??? on a site with 105000 detectors
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Indeed, it's the same site one time a psychiatric, sets fire on his bed and real fire burnt out some of the rooms area, but none of the detectors triggered..., we have managed to cover every thing since no life lost..., but I couldn't believe false alarms happens only when none genuine fire happens...
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It comes back always to probability and statistics no thing sure...
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We have had one offender who were creating around 400 UwFs per year, not in my area thankfully. It has taken 12 months of work by fire service staff to reduce the level to 2 calls last month. it was the intention to collect evidence to prosecute (more difficult than you think) but through education and training of the occupiers on how to check the building before calling the FS it seems to have worked.
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Some of the causes are really laughable ..., the site security crew changes so many times and they don't pass to each other what's what, we had a white board to sign off any system under test..., but still the white board for them is the last thing to look at, why? I don't know, I think they found it fanny to call fire brigade..., each time fire signal comes up on AMX computer…
Some other reasons…, the dentist operating in some of the floors, they used to set false alarms when using powder and teeth brushing…, but still haven’t got permission to swap SDs to HDs or Multisensors …
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, but still the white board for them is the last thing to look at, why? I don't know, I think they found it fanny to call fire brigade..., each time fire signal comes up on AMX computer…
clearly an unforseen consequence of equal opportunities in the fire service.