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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: SmokeyDokey on December 14, 2008, 07:59:40 PM
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I'm not sure how many folk saw David Sugden's article in FSE http://www.fseonline.co.uk/articles.asp?article_id=8165&viewcomment=1 or the original Evening Standard article that spawned it http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23558580-details/We+won+the+battle+of+the+Wharf/article.do
But, it does raise some vey significant questions for risk assessors, enforcers and of course for the responsible persons for the premises if, as David suggests there were a fire that spread as he suggests and the premises had been risk assessed, visited by the enforcing authority and yet the problems had not been found.
Is this an iscolated case or or for the modern built environment is it, as Marcellus would have it (Hamlet Act 1 scene 4) "Something is wrong is the state of Denmark".
Personally I'm pretty concerned by the story but would suggest that anyone replying with views makes good use of the term "allegedly" and avoids naming any names if they think there is a problem!
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I have come across this pod appproach with similar problems on another project- this time it was hotel bathroom pods. The manufacturers and architects were oblivious to the fact that the pod walls were actually being used as components of a protected shaft and needed to be fire resisting- which they werent. I suggested two options- either seal the shaft at each compartment floor or upgrade the wall of the pod to a one hour standard and seal penetrations. Of course the stock answer comes back - we have built thousands of these things and nobody else has made a fuss about it.
These sort of problems arise commonly when there is no single person responsible for overseeing the whole of a project from start to finish. ( ie most of them) Continuity falls down because the of the rapid turnover of staff - especially where the architect employs staff from all over the world- staff can change three or four times in the life of a project, and where whole swathes of the project are sub contracted out and to cut overheads there is insufficient supervision and co-ordination of the various contractors.
And finally I have personally heard approved inspectors being told that if they dont approve this project they wont get the next contract.Yes I think the problems are widespread.
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I have also come across these pods. This time bathroom pods whose walls formed part of a protected corridor. Fortunately the corridor walls are being constructed from block work while the pods will butt up to the blockwork. These things cause problems for other disciplines in the team not just fire. Particularly when they don't cast the recess for the pods in to the floor slab.
I also understand about the turn turn of project staff. One project I am working on has had a change in project manager, principle fire engineer, principle architect and senior MEP engineer in the last six months. Plus the overall project management firm has had a shake up and very few original faces are left there too (although that was for the better).
Another aspect of these modern buildings that I have had a struggle with is the amount of information. Before I left the UK I had to risk assess an eight year old university building holding shops, teaching and office accommodation. The first day was spent wading through the thirty volume Building Operations Manual. I found some juicy tidbits that the client didn't know about. Especially the nice grey paint on his exposed steelwork was part of an intumescent system. I didn't find any evidence of any touch ups with emulsion so I am hoping I found this out in time. Has anybody else had similar experiences and how does it affect pricing of the job?