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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: hammer1 on January 13, 2009, 07:02:38 PM
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Forgive me but I need some clearance on the above.
Have a new build that seems to be LD3 as there is no detection in the electrical intake but only on lift lobbies. Cannot gain access to dwellings so cannot see if heat detectors cover kitchen.
There are no sounders in the corridors.
On that information, if the detector is activated in the common areas, obviously the fire will be at a advanced stage and begs the question, don't get the residents out have a stay put policy as it is a new build and to the current building regulations.
So on that information you a relying on the person who identify the fire to raise the alarm, but I have been told in the past persons assume where the fire originates in a dwelling to conclude the person in the dwelling will sadly not make it due to smoke etc. If this does happen who raises the alarm, as joe bloggs next door gets into Corrie as a fire develops and spreads.
But one cannot see if there are sounders in the dwellings to the correct Db 75 to come to a conclusion.
With all this and the guidance advising that detectors are NOT required in common areas to flats built to building regulations and only self contained in the units, why have they installed them in the first place???
Would like your expert views to a novice like myself.
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I presume you are talking about flats rather than sheltered housing. If it is sheltered housing plese advise. But for flats this is becoming more and more common. The people who specify alarm systems for flats do not consider the fire strategy. And the extra expenditure and over sophistication can make matters worse.
I looked at one this week, The builders had installed a comprehensive fire alarm and detection system to BS5839 part 1 2002 system category L2 in a block of flats. No configuration details, or zone plan were available. The flats conformed to Building Regs in terms of layout and compartmentation. There were smoke detectors and break glass call points in the common areas, and smoke detectors linked to this system within the lobby of each flat, with a heat detector in each kitchen. On arrival the panel was showing fire, it had been silenced but not reset.
Such a system is not generally considered appropriate for a block of flats without a constant managerial presence. Whilst it may be considered to be over and above the benchmark standards for fire alarms as recommended in the Building Regulations Approved Document B, the potential disadvantages can outweigh any benefits.
The conventional arrangements in blocks of flats are for the provision of a self contained smoke alarm system in each flat to conform to BS 5839 Part 6 2004 System Type LD3 Grade D. No provision of detection and alarm is normally made to cover the common areas, which must be kept sterile and free of fire risk at all times. The fire compartmentation inherent in the building design leads to a strategy whereby in the event of a fire in an individual flat, only the occupants of the flat involved evacuate the building, others stay put in their flats unless instructed otherwise on arrival of the fire service.
The disadvantages of over provision appear to be that :
1- In the event of an unwanted fire alarm, eg by burned toast, depending on the configuration of the system, all flats will be alerted, and this is likely to bring the fire alarm system into disrepute with the residents of the block and they are likely either to ignore the alarm or worse it can lead to vandalism of the system
2- There is no responsible person on site to control the fire alarm and ensure that any faults are identified and dealt with and to ensure the system is properly re-set after any actuation
3-This type of system requires maintenance at least twice per year. This would involve making arrangements for the engineer to have access to all flats at least once per year to service the detectors. This is unlikely to be practicable.
4-The landlord cannot be held responsible for the maintenance of equipment housed within a persons private dwelling
5- If the alarm is silenced but not reset, depending on the configuration, this could render the smoke detectors in all other flats on the same loop or zone inactive and so other flats may lose their protection
6- The Fire Safety Order cannot be used to enforce maintenance of the system as domestic premises fall outside its scope
Whilst it is possible for an analogue addressable system to be reconfigured so that all detectors and sounders in flats act on their own to mimic a self contained smoke alarm, this does not address items 2,3,4 or 6 in the above list.
I recommended that the system should be reconfigured such that each flat works in stand alone mode, and robust arrangements made for the maintenance and supervision of the panel, or the system should be replaced by the installation of stand alone domestic type alarms in each flat to BS5839 part 6 2004 system type LD3 grade D.
I am not flavour of the month with the builder.
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I presume you are talking about flats rather than sheltered housing. If it is sheltered housing plese advise. But for flats this is becoming more and more common. The people who specify alarm systems for flats do not consider the fire strategy. And the extra expenditure and over sophistication can make matters worse.
I looked at one this week, The builders had installed a comprehensive fire alarm and detection system to BS5839 part 1 2002 system category L2 in a block of flats. No configuration details, or zone plan were available. The flats conformed to Building Regs in terms of layout and compartmentation. There were smoke detectors and break glass call points in the common areas, and smoke detectors linked to this system within the lobby of each flat, with a heat detector in each kitchen. On arrival the panel was showing fire, it had been silenced but not reset.
Such a system is not generally considered appropriate for a block of flats without a constant managerial presence. Whilst it may be considered to be over and above the benchmark standards for fire alarms as recommended in the Building Regulations Approved Document B, the potential disadvantages can outweigh any benefits.
The conventional arrangements in blocks of flats are for the provision of a self contained smoke alarm system in each flat to conform to BS 5839 Part 6 2004 System Type LD3 Grade D. No provision of detection and alarm is normally made to cover the common areas, which must be kept sterile and free of fire risk at all times. The fire compartmentation inherent in the building design leads to a strategy whereby in the event of a fire in an individual flat, only the occupants of the flat involved evacuate the building, others stay put in their flats unless instructed otherwise on arrival of the fire service. - But what about unoccupied areas like electrical intake, lift motor room, obviously these are higher risk due to possible ignition source
The disadvantages of over provision appear to be that :
1- In the event of an unwanted fire alarm, eg by burned toast, depending on the configuration of the system, all flats will be alerted, and this is likely to bring the fire alarm system into disrepute with the residents of the block and they are likely either to ignore the alarm or worse it can lead to vandalism of the system
2- There is no responsible person on site to control the fire alarm and ensure that any faults are identified and dealt with and to ensure the system is properly re-set after any actuation
3-This type of system requires maintenance at least twice per year. This would involve making arrangements for the engineer to have access to all flats at least once per year to service the detectors. This is unlikely to be practicable.
4-The landlord cannot be held responsible for the maintenance of equipment housed within a persons private dwelling
5- If the alarm is silenced but not reset, depending on the configuration, this could render the smoke detectors in all other flats on the same loop or zone inactive and so other flats may lose their protection
6- The Fire Safety Order cannot be used to enforce maintenance of the system as domestic premises fall outside its scope
Whilst it is possible for an analogue addressable system to be reconfigured so that all detectors and sounders in flats act on their own to mimic a self contained smoke alarm, this does not address items 2,3,4 or 6 in the above list.
I recommended that the system should be reconfigured such that each flat works in stand alone mode, and robust arrangements made for the maintenance and supervision of the panel, or the system should be replaced by the installation of stand alone domestic type alarms in each flat to BS5839 part 6 2004 system type LD3 grade D.
I am not flavour of the month with the builder.