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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: afterburner on January 23, 2009, 01:59:55 PM
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In three years the UK 'opt out' of the EU Working Time Regs. comes to an end.
Grampian F&RS are pointing out that an (unintended) effect of these Regs could impact directly on the working availability of retained firefighters.
does anyone have detail on this?
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In three years the UK 'opt out' of the EU Working Time Regs. comes to an end.
Grampian F&RS are pointing out that an (unintended) effect of these Regs could impact directly on the working availability of retained firefighters.
does anyone have detail on this?
Don't have details but you could try the FBU website.
It will also be a problem for F&R Services regarding Flexi Fire Officers who also have on call hours, 36 I think, in addition to their 42 office hours.
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http://www.rfuonline.co.uk/ for plenty of up to date info
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Thanks Tinker
explains why some parties are suggesting 'no problem', but are we blundering into one of those unintended effects and lose our RDS service?
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Thanks Tinker
explains why some parties are suggesting 'no problem', but are we blundering into one of those unintended effects and lose our RDS service?
Some parties are suggesting "no problem" because politicians give not a toot about providing a high standard of fire cover in the UK. The current standard in the UK would be just a pipe dream in many other countries.
Having just been to a far flung country on holiday I stayed in a large town which had many hotels and guesthouses. My guest house owner told me that the nearest fire station was 1 hour away and when a building goes on fire it usually burns down.
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Hi Nearly,
yes this has been my experience too and other European places I've visited seem to operate on a very comprehensive form of the RDS. (especially those that had a system of deferring National Armed Forces Service if service the fire brigade was substituted).
I am recalling that when European directives on PPE came in it had an immediate impact on the 'volunteer' stations on the Islands and far north west area of Scotland. In effect the fire authority had real problems meeting the cost of full impementation.
In such rural areas, where there is not a huge population to select a retained crew from, what options will be availabel to the fire authorities to crew an appliance?
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Hi Nearly,
yes this has been my experience too and other European places I've visited seem to operate on a very comprehensive form of the RDS. (especially those that had a system of deferring National Armed Forces Service if service the fire brigade was substituted).
I am recalling that when European directives on PPE came in it had an immediate impact on the 'volunteer' stations on the Islands and far north west area of Scotland. In effect the fire authority had real problems meeting the cost of full impementation.
In such rural areas, where there is not a huge population to select a retained crew from, what options will be availabel to the fire authorities to crew an appliance?
Thus why the big push to encourage females to join. Nothing wrong with that as long as you have at least 2 on an appliance.
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http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debate/?id=2009-01-22a.907.3
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http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debate/?id=2009-01-22a.907.3
"Harriet Harman (Lord Privy Seal, House of Commons; Camberwell & Peckham, Labour) Link to this | Hansard source | Watch this
The hon. Gentleman has made a detailed and complex point, although it is actually about the simple and important issue of providing adequate fire cover at all times for all communities, including isolated rural communities. Perhaps I could raise the matter with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform and ask him to write to the hon. Gentleman, to see whether he can allay his concerns."
Obviously, Harriet is happy with the WTD and its impact on the RDS and as such her Friend will write to Alistair and tell him not to be so stupid and stop opening cans of worms.
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No that's politico speak for "thats not in my brief so I dont know the answer"
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http://www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/6061
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All retained personnel could probably go voluntary, therefore are not be employed, as they do on most of the continent.
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All retained personnel could probably go voluntary, therefore are not be employed, as they do on most of the continent.
Can't see them doing it for nothing.
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Is there/was there not a section which allows for 'emergency' workers? Thought I'd read somewhere that police , fire etc. would not be fully controlled/restricted by the EU regs by virtue of the necessity of the type of work. :-\
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Not only F&R Services that will be affected.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7859743.stm
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Stuart
you may well be onto something about the 'volunteers', this a quote from the guide to the Working Time Regulations: -
A worker is:
someone who has a contract of employment, or someone who is paid a regular salary or wage and works for an organisation, business or individual. Their employer normally provides the worker with work, controls when and how the work is done, supplies them with tools and other equipment, and pays tax and National Insurance contributions. This includes part-time and temporary workers and the majority of agency workers and freelancers.
RDS firefighters are clearly subject to a contract of employment, but what about volunteers? is there any contractural basis for their contribution to the F&RS?
the question arising as to whether RDS employees would become unpaid volunteers looks like the start of another topic for discussion!
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Scottish Lib Dems On-Line petition the keep the opt out
http://www.scotlibdems.org.uk/keeptheoptout
Also lists every fire stn in Scotland that will be affected
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Stuart
you may well be onto something about the 'volunteers', this a quote from the guide to the Working Time Regulations: -
A worker is:
someone who has a contract of employment, or someone who is paid a regular salary or wage and works for an organisation, business or individual. Their employer normally provides the worker with work, controls when and how the work is done, supplies them with tools and other equipment, and pays tax and National Insurance contributions. This includes part-time and temporary workers and the majority of agency workers and freelancers.
RDS firefighters are clearly subject to a contract of employment, but what about volunteers? is there any contractural basis for their contribution to the F&RS?
the question arising as to whether RDS employees would become unpaid volunteers looks like the start of another topic for discussion!
I can assure you that if you change the RDS to a voluntry service you may as well close the stations. There is very little community spirit since Modernisation.
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I fear you are right Nearly.
And without RDS crewed appliances the fire & rescue service will vanish from many areas. But the workperson is worthy of their hire, and this includes RDS firefighters.
What about Reserve Forces? Spending all their 'normal' time at work and 'other' time as part time (paid and subject to a contract) military personnel (or do the military have a tailored opt out just for this?)
Thinking of the actions being taken elsewhere as a result of European employment and contract law, hostility to this piece of legislatin may very well grow.
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Westminster debate on WTD & RDS
http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/VideoPlayer.aspx?meetingId=3336