FireNet Community
FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: The Colonel on January 25, 2009, 06:32:12 PM
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Before I invest in the equipment to undertake fire safety training using live fire (Propane fuel) I would be grateful if those that undertake this type of work would advise me on the following.
When arranging insurance cover for this work did your company/broker have a fit or give you a sensible quote and roughly how much do you pay in addition to your normal insurance to cover the live fire training?
Any recomendations as to which insurance company/broker to approach? rather than breach any forum rules an email would be great.
Any additional info would be welcome, thanks
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Hi Colonel
I researched this but did not take it up because I now hire a unit complete with insurance, driver and operator when I need to use one. However when I was looking at buying one of the portable rigs I initially made the mistake of using the term live fire which frightened the insurers. They seem to have a fear and blanket ban on terms like live fire. Instead call it a fire simulator training unit and let them have a safe system of work with your initial approach. It aint live fire - its a controlled simulation of a class A, B and C fires using propane gas. When I spoke to my broker in these terms he became quite optimistic that my public liability insurance for trainers would cover it.
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Kurnal
Thanks for that, using fire simulation seems a better way of putting it, and the public liability might be a good angle. Did mention it to my broker some time ago about insurance for the portable simulators that fit into the rear of a car and the answer came back that it may look like a phone number.
But there must be a reasonable cost effecrtive solution somewhere.
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I did see a unit at the Health and Safety Expo in Birmingham last year which is an electronic system. It is a panel which shows a flickering fire and the extinguisher has an electronic beam.
To train with it the trainee has the extinguisher and operates it as a real one and then points it at the panel. If the trainee operates it correctly the fire dies down, if not it carries on growing. The 'extinguisher' can be programmed to mimic the different types of extinguisher water, DP etc.
Obviously the trainee is not in any danger and if you use a smoke gene they can tackle a fire in a room with smoke.
I didn't go any futher as I suspect the price would mean if I tried to get for the place I work at the FD would roll around the floor laughing.
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Hi
Ref Mikes comment.
I recently emailed a company named BullEx who advertise the type of equipment mentioned.
They called me from New York State and quoted me £6000.00.
Looked impressive however I will stick to my propane system.
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Steve
Seen the Bullex system but didnt realise it cost that much, how do you come off with insurance on your propane system?
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for anyone interested website http://www.bullexsafety.com/HotShot.asp?p=products&sp=digital
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Just found this one...might be worth giving them a ring and ask about insurance
http://www.stafffiretraining.co.uk/fire-training-med.html
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£6000 for that fairground game??? ???
No smoke, no fire, no heat and the trainees are not even using an extinguisher they are likely to have in their workplace. What the hell is the point other than a marketing gimmick for the training company, which you don't need to haul around a heavy LPG rig and cylinders??
It's all sounds like Bullex to me. ::) Surely in real terms, it's no better than a 'cold' demonstration where trainees let of proper FFE in a car park. (or have I missed the point?)
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I think I probably agree with you Messy
If you are going to carry out live fire training then I think it's best to get 'hands on' with the kit you are most likely going to use in the workplace.
Classic example is the sound a CO2 extinguisher makes when activated - it always alarms people who have never used one. Plus people sometimes dont realise how heavy extinguishers are etc etc.
Then again I suppose this type of kit "ticks the boxes" for being clean and environmentally friendly and claims to reaxct as a live fire would.
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I would like to announce to the world that I have made an enormous breakthrough in the area of fire extinguisher training. This new method of mine is pollution neutral, 100% safe and clean for the users and is very easily transported. "How on earth did you do that NT you clever thing?" I hear you all ask.
Well, with the trainee in the middle of a room, I stand in any corner with a red rag and when he is least expecting it I shout out "Yoohoo, I'm a fire and I'm over here" and frantically wave the flag. The trainee points an imaginary fire extinguisher at me and goes "Schhhhhhhhhht" until I stop shouting and waving the flag. Because it is so portable and adaptable I can then go to another room and do the same thing again. It can even be used to train many at the one time.
The system can be enhanced by hiding behind a box or cupboard and then taking the trainee completely by surprise, even from behind.
What ya think people?
NB. This process is patent pending and any attempt to copy all or any of it will mean that the potential thief is a cuckoo and needs help.
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Wow thats pure genius NT
Where do I sign and how soon can you start?
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I dont like to stifle initiative but you really havn't though this through at all NT.
I suggest you re-evaluate your equality and diversity policy and the realism of the scenario.
For a CO2 extinguisher the term "Schhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhtststssssssssss" would more accurately reflect the application and encourage a maintained discharge. For water "Schhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhsplubschhhhhhsplubsplubsplub" would be mre realistic.
In terms of race and language issues you may need to review your standard phraseology.
Instead of "Schhhhhhhhht" Persons from some parts of Eastern Europe should be offered the chance to use terms such as "CZZZCIEWCZ" and if you are training in Wales "LLLLLFAIRPWYLLLLLLLLOGOGOCH" may be better.
You must try harder if you are ever going to make a living in this game.
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I dont like to stifle initiative but you really havn't though this through at all NT.
I suggest you re-evaluate your equality and diversity policy and the realism of the scenario.
For a CO2 extinguisher the term "Schhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhtststssssssssss" would more accurately reflect the application and encourage a maintained discharge. For water "Schhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhsplubschhhhhhsplubsplubsplub" would be mre realistic.
In terms of race and language issues you may need to review your standard phraseology.
Instead of "Schhhhhhhhht" Persons from some parts of Eastern Europe should be offered the chance to use terms such as "CZZZCIEWCZ" and if you are training in Wales "LLLLLFAIRPWYLLLLLLLLOGOGOCH" may be better.
You must try harder if you are ever going to make a living in this game.
I am surprised at you K. You missed one of the very fundimental elements of this training aid which sets it apart from the rest - its simplicity. If you have a different self made extinguisher sound for each one you run the risk of confusing even the most competant of mime artists. The Schhhhhhhht is in Esperanto and in order to keep everthing very, very simple I have another patent pending, optional extra, element of this which involves the instructor not stopping waving the flag if the trainee gives the wrong tone of Schhhhhhhht.
Should you wish to buy a licence for my training aid you can, with my express permission, use your strange and totally pointless, if I might add, sound effects.
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Wow thats pure genius NT
Where do I sign and how soon can you start?
As you are the first to order MR you can have it at my cashback offer. Please forward me your credit card details including the security number so that I can refund £200 to your account when you start to use the system.
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Don't forget to up the pitch of your voice a semitone or two with the CO2 to simulate when the main gas has gone and you just get that noisy (but useless residue) :D
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Wow thats pure genius NT
Where do I sign and how soon can you start?
As you are the first to order MR you can have it at my cashback offer. Please forward me your credit card details including the security number so that I can refund £200 to your account when you start to use the system.
Listen NT £25000 and 25% control of the company is my final offer ...or Im out.. and you will find yourself talking to that crossed eyed guy with the big ears sooner than planned.
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Wow thats pure genius NT
Where do I sign and how soon can you start?
As you are the first to order MR you can have it at my cashback offer. Please forward me your credit card details including the security number so that I can refund £200 to your account when you start to use the system.
Listen NT £25000 and 25% control of the company is my final offer ...or Im out.. and you will find yourself talking to that crossed eyed guy with the big ears sooner than planned.
Do you really expect me to share the spoils of the training aid of the century with a paranoid flunky from West Mids and Staffs for a measily £25000 and 25%. I'd rather take my chances with a Nigerian ex pat trying to release billions from a Swiss ban account promising to make me a multi millionaire by the time I'm 97.
However in the absence of any other offers I will send the contract post haste for your completion. Page 293 is just legal mumbo jumbo which you will find quite boring to read but you can take it from me that it is all above board and you don't have to bother wasting time going into the nitty gritty of it. Just sign at the bottom.
Welcome on board partner. I will not be available for our first board meeting. I have a FRA to carry out of a wheelie bin in the Carribean somewhere and may take some time.
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Reminds me of this :D ;)
http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/oct08.htm (http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/oct08.htm)
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Wow thats pure genius NT
Where do I sign and how soon can you start?
As you are the first to order MR you can have it at my cashback offer. Please forward me your credit card details including the security number so that I can refund £200 to your account when you start to use the system.
Listen NT £25000 and 25% control of the company is my final offer ...or Im out.. and you will find yourself talking to that crossed eyed guy with the big ears sooner than planned.
Do you really expect me to share the spoils of the training aid of the century with a paranoid flunky from West Mids and Staffs for a measily £25000 and 25%. I'd rather take my chances with a Nigerian ex pat trying to release billions from a Swiss ban account promising to make me a multi millionaire by the time I'm 97.
However in the absence of any other offers I will send the contract post haste for your completion. Page 293 is just legal mumbo jumbo which you will find quite boring to read but you can take it from me that it is all above board and you don't have to bother wasting time going into the nitty gritty of it. Just sign at the bottom.
Welcome on board partner. I will not be available for our first board meeting. I have a FRA to carry out of a wheelie bin in the Carribean somewhere and may take some time.
Flunky? ....FLUNKY????????? How extremely very dare you...