FireNet Community
FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Technical Advice => Topic started by: Fergie on March 25, 2009, 07:03:40 PM
-
Has anyone had any dealings with PEL Fire Warn panels? Was called out to a fault on a panel, which is 18/20 Zone BFP 6135N. It’s a panel that I have not come across before and appears to be a 2-wire SAV system with Apollo Sav- wire bases and detectors.
As usual no manual available for the panel, all the customer could tell me was that it had been installed approximately 15 years ago and has not been serviced for sometime. I managed to locate and clear the fault but could not see a way to test the system without having someone else to reset the panel controls as no way to isolate the sounders, unless anyone else knows otherwise?
Any help would be appreciated.
-
If you find out of no way of testing the alarm without the sounders going then i would disconnect all other zones and leave/test the zone your in, that way only sounders work in that area. But i will say i do not know if that is o.k to do in a service, but there again at the end i would connect all zones back in and let it go as a live test before leaving site. :P
-
Could you not connect a diode across the zones you want to test, therefore not allowing the polarity to reverse??
-
Good point! Just means that I will need to carry out testing zones individually but will still require someone to reset the panel after each device is activated. Zones can be disabled without the need to disconnect via internal switches within the panel. Just wondered if anyone had any experience with this make of panel when it comes to testing?
-
I think PEL simply badged up Protector Alarms panels out of Crystal Palace .. but not sure.... they'll send you a manual if you need it.
If it is one of theirs, depending on the panel, you could put it into on man test using an internal slide switch and also isolating the auxillary contacts - another internal slide switch or key switch on the front.....
-
Thanks for your input guys, it’s always helpful when someone else has come across similar panels. I will have another look at the panel to see if I can ID it further and also if I can locate the switches you describe ……………..
-
PEL was Planned Eqipment Ltd. Their ex technical director works for us. Email me with specific enquiry.
-
Thanks Colin
Will contact you directly.
-
Could you not connect a diode across the zones you want to test, therefore not allowing the polarity to reverse??
This is a good point, worth trying it. :)
-
Could you not connect a diode across the zones you want to test, therefore not allowing the polarity to reverse??
JonnyG, can you please explain (technically) why this works?
-
I can't Wiz, I just know it works with our Sav-wire panels, so assumed that it would be the same here.
-
Sav Wire panels reverse the voltage on the zone to drive the sounders so the diode stops it going through on an activation.
-
That's what I thought. Just thought Wiz was looking a more in depth explanation. :)
-
have not seen one for years but from what i remember zones can be put into test by means of dil switches we would put one zone into test and isolate the others again by dil switches on the right hand side of the pcb
-
As I mentioned earlier the panel does have internal dil switches to isolate and disable each zone individually, but I can’t for the life of me see how you put the panel into one- man test and avoid the need for a second person to reset the panel each time a device is activated?
There is another set of dil switches marked up as ‘optional switches’ but I’m unsure as to what they are for and why they are set in the manner that they are? Until I can obtain a manual or be advised as to how or if, the panel can be put into test mode then JonnyG’s idea of fitting a diode across the zones might be worth a try.
-
Sav Wire panels reverse the voltage on the zone to drive the sounders so the diode stops it going through on an activation.
Buzz, if you do this, doesn't the diode then provide a short-circuit and cause a fuse to blow?
-
As I mentioned earlier the panel does have internal dil switches to isolate and disable each zone individually, but I can’t for the life of me see how you put the panel into one- man test and avoid the need for a second person to reset the panel each time a device is activated?
There is another set of dil switches marked up as ‘optional switches’ but I’m unsure as to what they are for and why they are set in the manner that they are? Until I can obtain a manual or be advised as to how or if, the panel can be put into test mode then JonnyG’s idea of fitting a diode across the zones might be worth a try.
Hmmm.... it's not a protector panel then.....
-
Sav Wire panels reverse the voltage on the zone to drive the sounders so the diode stops it going through on an activation.
Buzz, if you do this, doesn't the diode then provide a short-circuit and cause a fuse to blow?
not if diode is in series with the pos leg (when panel is in monitoring state) .. the panel should latch in alarm condition without setting off sounders.
Protector panels have jumpers under each zone terminal that effectively change the zone from "normal" to savwire and does the same thing...
-
David, you appear to be saying the diode is connected in series to the positive leg. Johnny G originally suggestd connecting the diode across the zone wiring. Which is correct?
-
Hello Wiz...
I think he meant putting it in series... as you say if you go across the zone wiring you are going to create a short circuit... either when the system is monitoring - or when it goes into alarm - reversing polarity of the circuit.
By putting the diode in series you are effectively polarising the circuit, allowing current flow in one direction only when the system is monitoring.. when the same zone circuit goes into alarm (reverses polarity) the diode will block current flow and therefore prevent the sounders from operating.
-
Thanks David.
I was sure that your answer was the correct answer and that is why I started questioning the original advice. Advice is only good when it is correct and clearly explained!
Rather than to immediately say there was something wrong with the original advice, I thought I would question it, just in case there was something I wasn't understanding!
In all events, the matter is now cleared up. The diode goes in series with one leg of the zone wiring and not accross the zone wiring.
-
Hello Wiz...
I think he meant putting it in series... as you say if you go across the zone wiring you are going to create a short circuit... either when the system is monitoring - or when it goes into alarm - reversing polarity of the circuit.
By putting the diode in series you are effectively polarising the circuit, allowing current flow in one direction only when the system is monitoring.. when the same zone circuit goes into alarm (reverses polarity) the diode will block current flow and therefore prevent the sounders from operating.
A good solution to isolating the sounders but with 20 zones it's a bit of a rigmarole ............... The display on the panel indicates that the panel can be put into test mode but it's a question of how you go about it? With no operating manual and not knowing where I can source one I was hoping that someone could answer my original question of "How to put the panel into test mode"?
Colin Todd mentioned that he works with an ex technical director of PEL and hopefully Colin's colleague will be able to answer the question? Over to you Colin ............... :)
-
Thanks David.
I was sure that your answer was the correct answer and that is why I started questioning the original advice. Advice is only good when it is correct and clearly explained!
Rather than to immediately say there was something wrong with the original advice, I thought I would question it, just in case there was something I wasn't understanding!
In all events, the matter is now cleared up. The diode goes in series with one leg of the zone wiring and not accross the zone wiring.
That's what I meant!! Sorry to cause confusion.