FireNet Community
FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => General Interest => Topic started by: messy on May 16, 2009, 01:34:24 PM
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This might cause some disruption to courses due to start imminently
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/gloucestershire/8053313.stm
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Oh dear... I bet that one gets a full fire investigation
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I wonder who did the fire risk assessment !!
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I wonder who did the fire risk assessment !!
[/quote...and I wonder who's fie alarm system was installed on site ::)?
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I wonder who did the fire risk assessment !!
[/quote...and I wonder who's fie alarm system was installed on site ::)?
Indeed..... I believe I know who's system is installed there.... thank god not ours :P
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who ever did do the FRA has some explaining to do! probably done by a fire extinguisher engineer for £2.00 lol
simon :-[
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I wonder who did the fire risk assessment !!
[/quote...and I wonder who's fie alarm system was installed on site ::)?
Indeed..... I believe I know who's system is installed there.... thank god not ours :P
Hopefully for the company involved there was no AFD out in that area!
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Rumour has it that the fire at FSC caused over £100,000 of improvement.
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As a taxpayer who will be buying them a new shed, could I ask to see the FRA and enquire whether CPIG are to carry out a post fire FSO compliance audit as would happen in the real world.
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Go for it Colin, I could really do with a laugh
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Could it have been that ebay FRA provider come kitchen installer? Under compulsary competitive tendering they would have needed to take the lowest quotation. I would have done it for £50 from home whilst fixing my kitchen doors.
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Rumour has it that the fire at FSC caused over £100,000 of improvement.
:D :D :D I would agree there, when I was there is the mid 90's a lot of the equipment was early 70's in age and didn't work, causing much embarrassment to the instructors every time something didn't operate - this was everything from extinguishers to whole fire engines!
If it wasn't such a respected organisation ;) you would think it was an insurance job....
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OOucchhH!
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As a taxpayer who will be buying them a new shed, could I ask to see the FRA and enquire whether CPIG are to carry out a post fire FSO compliance audit as would happen in the real world.
Colin where were you on Saturday at approximately 09.15hrs?...and can anyone verify where you were? :p
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I did have a lovely letter from them this morning when i arrived telling me my course was still on :'(
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Had I been there, I would have been pleased to assist by spitting on the fire. I always spit when I mention Moreton. However, the Princess can verify my whereabouts as Friday was one of her stopovers. It was probably electrical. Maybe Phillllllllllip left the lights on when he left the sinking ship.
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Colin, you should be more vocal in your contempt of the place.
I fail to see why you have such a problem with Moreton. To someone who has a masters it may all be very much 'below you', but is that a reason to constantly sneer and bitch at any mention of the place? They are not there trying to teach a bunch of academics, they are teaching normal people from many walks of life, and in my opinion consistently doing a good job of it.
I have just got back from yet another week there, and received a lot of information that was very relevant to my position/role, from lecturers that consistently know their subjects to a great depth. The place isn't perfect but I fail to see where any competition is coming from.
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Civvy, I wll try, just to please you, to be more vocal. However, you know how you and I are always very measured in our comments and never go over the top, do we?
I do not have a problem with Moreton, other than picking my way through the the traffic in Chipping Norton during the tourist season, mainly because I avoid the place like Swine Fever.
I am not sure of the relevance of a Masters to my dislike of this particular establishment. I am not keen on Indian food, but that has nothing to do with my qualification in domestic science. I am perplexed as to what you think is below me, but am grateful that you hold me on such a pedestal that you think some things are.
I think we can agree that they are not teaching academics (or, arguably, even academically), so perhaps, as always, we are really in quite close agreement.
The normality of the unfortunates sent there for reprogramming is not in dispute. You are enititled to your opinion on the quality of teaching, as indeed I am entitled to mine. That is what a democracy is all about, and while it may cause contention it is better than the alternative regimes (though I used to tell the former Mrs Todd that I was a benign dictator, a bit like President Tito). Kurnal risked his life putting out fires from the bombs Hitler sent over, just so I could have freedom of speech and it would be discourteous of me not to avail myself of the freedom he afforded us all.
I am glad you enjoyed your wee holiday in the Cotswolds, and am pleased to receive your belated postcard, though it did not contain the obligatory "wish you were here", but I take it was read that you did. I hope you were suitably entertained by the locals at the hostelries in close proximity, which I always thought was the main reason officers enjoyed Moreton.
The lack of perfection of "the place" is something we can also agree on.
I note that you fail to see the competition. I went to see Mr Hall the optician on Saturday and I failed to see the bottom line of the L M N T R S thingy on his wee board so he is going to change my prescription by a quarter of a dioptre. Give him a ring and tell him I have diagnosed a serious case of myopia. When you tell him how bad the symptoms are, he will probably see you as an emergency case. (He is very good, though he consistently fails to fix the fact that, when I look at delegates on our excellent training courses, available to all fire and rescue services at special discount, the delegate next to him/her always answers. Mr Hall says I have a squint, but never tells me why he doesnt fix it.)
Alternatively, just ask the multitude of F&RS who have turned away from Moreton for training and I am sure they can enlighten you, at a fraction of the cost of Mr H's lenses and frames.
Best wishes and keep prosecuting the proletariat as I need the expert witness work to pay for the maintenance of the former Mrs Todd and my much-loved wee girl.
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Colin- have you considered that it maybe isnt Mr Hall who prescribes your lenses- perhaps it is the person next to him?
Personally I find most training organisations a dissapointment. The great majority seem determined to treat my insomnia rather than teach me something new. At least at Moreton they ensure that the seats are so old, worn and uncomfortable that you have to shuffle every few minutes to maintain circulation in your posterior.
There are some cracking instructors at Moreton though . And some total duffers. And many of the best are those who have the experience at the sharp end rather than the dry academics who can give you all the theory but cannot relate it to the real world.
I have never yet experienced one of your company's courses. But I would be interested to know what you look for in a good instructor and how you select your staff- I am aware of your personal qualities in getting the message across- but you cant do it all yourself? And some of the organisations of high national repute are flipping pathetic actually when it comes to standards and delivery of training. Glossy brochures, premium fees and death by powerpoint.
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CT I read all 554 words in your response to Civvy and still do not understand what your objections are. Do you find it difficult to give a clear unambiguous answer to the questions directed to you or are you protecting yourself from retaliation.
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Colin
I am sure that your fire alarm and legislation courses are very good. I will reserve judgement on the risk assessment one until I have done it later this year.
But... when you have learnt those basics, where are the alternatives to Moretons Building Regs course, intro to fire engineering, smoke control, sprinklers, hospital HTM's & firecode etc?
I know some use the time at Moreton as a bit of time off and an excuse to spend most nights in the Bell murdering Tom Jones yet again, but I and many others manage to get a lot out of it.
Regarding the thinly disguised insinuation or joke regarding Moreton not teaching academically, it seems that BTEC are happy enough with their courses to allow them to go towards a foundation degree, and the courses all go towards National Occupational Standards & NVQ's. Do your own, self admittedly, 'superior' courses have any form of national recognition, apart from the IFE risk assessor thing?
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Dear TW, I dont have objections, I merely have a strong dislike of people who can perform their own colonoscopies.
Civvy, As I have already said, ask the F&RS's who buy all these things from others, since you will not listen to me in any case, you might listen to them.
Kurnal, Although I am too young to have personal experience of the phenomenon, I have been told that advanced ageing causes insomnia. This is not the place to discuss our recruitment policies, which might contravene equality and diversity requirements, but, in terms of trainers, I tend to look at people who do not begin legislation at section 1 and read it all out verbatim from a to zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. I find it helps to actually have experience of doing it all for real.
MESSAGE ENDS. RETURNING TO HOME STATION. AVAILABLE FOR FURTHER FIRE CALLS.
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CT there you go again please keep it simple, for simple souls like me are you saying the instructors have a limited knowledge but they are not aware of these limitations and some of them dare to argue with you.
As for F&RS's who buy all these things from others I suspect you will find that is about finances than quality of courses.
As for reading legislation out verbatim this was certainly not the case on the courses I attended and we had some lively discussions on the interpretation of many of the sections.
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Colin dont speak in riddles. If you have any concerns about the college then why not just say so, have the courage of your convictions. What is this remark about colonoscopy referring to?
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Colin dont speak in riddles. If you have any concerns about the college then why not just say so, have the courage of your convictions. What is this remark about colonoscopy referring to?
What is colonoscopy?
Colonoscopy is a procedure used to see inside the colon and rectum. Colonoscopy can detect inflamed tissue, ulcers, and abnormal growths. The procedure is used to look for early signs of colorectal cancer and can help doctors diagnose unexplained changes in bowel habits, abdominal pain, bleeding from the anus, and weight loss.
But I don't think CT was using it to define a medical procedure.
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We all have different ways of expressing ourselves and speaking for myself I generally enjoy Colins sideways-on humour. Personally I cant resist a double entendre and whenever I see an opening I slip one in.
It would be interesting to compare the college approach to teaching say fire safety legislation to other organisations approaches.
I wager that of the service providers out there only the College is really equipped to teach people to enforce the Fire Safety Law at the sharp end. I cannot see how any other organisation can do this effectively due to the closed shop nature of enforcement- the Barristers and judges only get to pick the bones out of the 0.000001% of enforcement actions that actually or nearly reach court and they never see the great majority of cases that are effectively dealt with using informal procedures and bluff and persuasion.
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We all have different ways of expressing ourselves and speaking for myself I generally enjoy Colins sideways-on humour. Personally I cant resist a double entendre and whenever I see an opening I slip one in.
It would be interesting to compare the college approach to teaching say fire safety legislation to other organisations approaches.
I wager that of the service providers out there only the College is really equipped to teach people to enforce the Fire Safety Law at the sharp end. I cannot see how any other organisation can do this effectively due to the closed shop nature of enforcement- the Barristers and judges only get to pick the bones out of the 0.000001% of enforcement actions that actually or nearly reach court and they never see the great majority of cases that are effectively dealt with using informal procedures and bluff and persuasion.
True. Enforcement is a sign of weakness.
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On my FSC course the instructors were fine & good at their job - the problem I had was the shocking state of the equipment, it's age, obsolence and out datedness and the terrible maintenance (or lack of).
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We all have different ways of expressing ourselves and speaking for myself I generally enjoy Colins sideways-on humour. Personally I cant resist a double entendre and whenever I see an opening I slip one in
And I agree Prof...but occassionally Mr Todd's sideways humour can be lost on me and I dare say others too.
If somebody wishes to criticise anyone or anything then they should by all means do so, but it should be done constructively and without mallice.
I have attended both CS Todd Courses and FSC courses. All were of an excellent standard. It should also be born in mind the FSC employs instructors from all kinds of backgrounds, not just uniformed fire officers.
And never mind "openings "and "slipping things" in them Prof don't think that one went ver my head chummy!
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Colin dont speak in riddles. If you have any concerns about the college then why not just say so, have the courage of your convictions. What is this remark about colonoscopy referring to?
What is colonoscopy?
Colonoscopy is a procedure used to see inside the colon and rectum. Colonoscopy can detect inflamed tissue, ulcers, and abnormal growths. The procedure is used to look for early signs of colorectal cancer and can help doctors diagnose unexplained changes in bowel habits, abdominal pain, bleeding from the anus, and weight loss.
But I don't think CT was using it to define a medical procedure.
...or (to put in simpler terms) they have their own heads shoved so far up their backsides they can see if there is anything there without the use of expensive medical probing equipment.
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Grand Wizzard, Retty, I am pleased to note that you used an upper case letter for our Courses (sic) but lower case for those another place.
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That was a mistake Colin He told me he intended to use the word "Coarses"
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Yes Buzz they do. Trouble is, some still do see daylight - ['Is there anybody there...?' said the traveller, knocking at the moonlit door. While his horse in the darkness chomped the grasses, the traveller knocked once more...](cannot remeber who wrote that, but seemed appropriate - weirdly though I know) 8)
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Had I been there, I would have been pleased to assist by spitting on the fire. I always spit when I mention Moreton.
..................................... Maybe Phillllllllllip left the lights on when he left the sinking ship............................................................. in terms of trainers, I tend to look at people who do not begin legislation at section 1 and read it all out verbatim from a to zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. I find it helps to actually have experience of doing it all for real.
Toddddy you old charmer, I have returned to the ship and I am pleased to report that it is still afloat. I had nothing to do with the fire or the risk assessment, honest guv!
It could be worse, at least the FRA wouldn’t have been carried out using a tick box proforma that fails to record the prescribed information because they have never used your PAS as far as I am aware.
P.S If I catch anyone reading out legislation verbatim I will threaten to send them on one of your courses..that should liven them up!
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Philllip, Dont tell me you are doing a Mandleson and coming back from the cold to the dark. If so what speed did you get the thingy on the main drive up to. My record is 50mph, but that was only in 2nd.
So you are sure you didnt leave the lights on? You know how you like to illuminate everyone.
I will let you know the format of the FRA, when I get it from the Freedom of Info people. In the meantime, maybe you could do one on a good proforma like PAS 79- a number of F&RS's now use it to document their FRAs for F&RS premises. And CFOA acknowledge its adequacy. OMG dont tell me the seat of learning is out of step with the customers, yet again???
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Lord Toddy
[I will let you know the format of the FRA, when I get it from the Freedom of Info people]
Go for it ;D ;D ;D
re your esteemed PAS, pray tell, do you consider it suitable for all premises, say a large nick, three stories, up to 400 staff and say 20 guests? :-\
davo
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In the meantime, maybe you could do one on a good proforma like PAS 79- a number of F&RS's now use it to document their FRAs for F&RS premises. And CFOA acknowledge its adequacy. OMG dont tell me the seat of learning is out of step with the customers, yet again???
mmmmm out of step or slightly better informed than some of your chums I wonder? ;)
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Goes to show you can hoodwink anyone into anything.