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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: Bruce89 on October 12, 2009, 07:23:07 PM

Title: Holiday Cottage
Post by: Bruce89 on October 12, 2009, 07:23:07 PM
A holiday cottage consisting of 2 storey timber construction, open plan lounge, diner and kitchen on ground floor with open plan staircase to 3 bedrooms on first floor. Accomodates maximum of 8 but only let out as a single booking i.e. group of friends, family etc. but advertised as unsuitable for disabled. Max travel distance approx 12-15m, bedrooms all have windows suitable for escape. Impossible to change open plan layout.
Views on an acceptable standard would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Holiday Cottage
Post by: nearlythere on October 12, 2009, 07:33:17 PM
A holiday cottage consisting of 2 storey timber construction, open plan lounge, diner and kitchen on ground floor with open plan staircase to 3 bedrooms on first floor. Accomodates maximum of 8 but only let out as a single booking i.e. group of friends, family etc. but advertised as unsuitable for disabled. Max travel distance approx 12-15m, bedrooms all have windows suitable for escape. Impossible to change open plan layout.
Views on an acceptable standard would be appreciated.
I would be inclined to treat it as a single family dwelling as that is how it is being occupied with interlinked grade D detection in escape routes.  Maybe safety lighting in escape routes as they may not be familiar with surroundings in short period of time.
Title: Re: Holiday Cottage
Post by: jokar on October 12, 2009, 07:58:03 PM
Have a read of the small B&B guide available on the CLG website.  It will assist you with this as that is why it was produced.
Title: Re: Holiday Cottage
Post by: CivvyFSO on October 13, 2009, 12:18:49 AM
http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/fire/pdf/payingguests.pdf
Title: Re: Holiday Cottage
Post by: Midland Retty on October 13, 2009, 11:41:21 AM
As Nearlythere states you can treat the cottage like any other single family unit dwelling - the holidaymakers using the cottage will probably know each other and thus will be more inclined to look after each others interests and well being

BS 5839 Part 6 Grade D system sounds fine.

Risk assess the need for escape lighting. Plug in night lights which double up as torches are a good idea in this environment.

Well fitting doors of traditional construction should be ok

The layout of the property isn't ideal, and wherever possible I try to avoid using escape windows - they're fine for able bodied people but what about an 80 year old grandmother with dodgy hips? In this scenario however it is acceptable.
Title: Re: Holiday Cottage
Post by: CivvyFSO on October 13, 2009, 12:09:42 PM
wherever possible I try to avoid using escape windows - they're fine for able bodied people but what about an 80 year old grandmother with dodgy hips?

Greetings Grandma Retty

All this time on the forum and I never knew you had a hip problem.

 :P
Title: Re: Holiday Cottage
Post by: Midland Retty on October 13, 2009, 12:29:31 PM
 ::) Matron, Civvy is out of bed again!  ::)

PS:- Civvy your comments constitute banter - you may recieve a fixed penalty fine by Chief Inspector Houston  and / or a posterial marrigold glove inspection by Matron
Title: Re: Holiday Cottage
Post by: xan on October 13, 2009, 01:09:12 PM
::) Matron, Civvy is out of bed again!  ::)

PS:- Civvy your comments constitute banter - you may recieve a fixed penalty fine by Chief Inspector Houston  and / or a posterial marrigold glove inspection by Matron
what do I have to say to get one of those please!
Title: Re: Holiday Cottage
Post by: Davo on October 13, 2009, 01:28:42 PM
Civvy

Wasn't aware Retty had ever been hip ;D ;D


However, if he was an 80 year old grandmother with dodgy hips does this explain why there is no Mrs Retty ??? ??? except INNIL?


davo
Title: Re: Holiday Cottage
Post by: Wiz on October 13, 2009, 04:27:40 PM
......you may recieve a fixed penalty fine by Chief Inspector Houston......

Has anyone else noticed that there has been a distinct lack of contretemps between members since C.I. Houston has been on foreign duties?  I know he was meant to be policing the fights, but I'm beginning to wonder if he started most of them!
Title: Re: Holiday Cottage
Post by: Wiz on October 13, 2009, 04:30:17 PM
::) Matron, Civvy is out of bed again!  ::)

PS:- Civvy your comments constitute banter - you may recieve a fixed penalty fine by Chief Inspector Houston  and / or a posterial marrigold glove inspection by Matron
what do I have to say to get one of those please!

Be in the Banter bar at 21.00 on Tuesdays. Matron inspects us all regularly to find out where we have been hiding the bromide pills she gives us each lunchtime.
Title: Re: Holiday Cottage
Post by: Davo on October 13, 2009, 08:51:01 PM
Surely not Dr Wiz :o

Doesn't your sphincter fall asleep with disastrous consequences ??? ??? ???


davo
Title: Re: Holiday Cottage
Post by: Hightower on October 14, 2009, 12:39:49 PM
In such cases I also understand the housing act requirements of annually checking gas appliances, PAT testing and the FFR 1988 (as amended) all apply.

Fire Action information should also be provided ' particularly as foreigners may need to know 999 is our emergency number', and the property's full address will be helpful.

The provision of relatively simple fire safety advice such as 'switch off non essential electrical items at night, leave keys in final exit doors so they can be immediately located' all helps and serves as putting some of the fire safety measures back onto the guests.

Title: Re: Holiday Cottage
Post by: nearlythere on October 14, 2009, 12:48:53 PM
In such cases I also understand the housing act requirements of annually checking gas appliances, PAT testing and the FFR 1988 (as amended) all apply.

Fire Action information should also be provided ' particularly as foreigners may need to know 999 is our emergency number', and the property's full address will be helpful.

The provision of relatively simple fire safety advice such as 'switch off non essential electrical items at night, leave keys in final exit doors so they can be immediately located' all helps and serves as putting some of the fire safety measures back onto the guests.

All good common sense advice HT but would you accept a key operated lock rather than asking for an EOD?
Title: Re: Holiday Cottage
Post by: Hightower on October 15, 2009, 10:15:54 PM
NT
In the case of holiday let cottages I'd say a manual EOD was preferable but would advise at a time of refurbishment rather than mandatory.  I would argue that clear instructions about keys left in locks whilst residing in a low risk property would be suitable and sufficient as long as the locks were in good condition.  I have come across many in such properties that look as though they are about to fall off!!
Title: Re: Holiday Cottage
Post by: hammer1 on October 28, 2009, 04:41:42 PM
Slightly off topic here.

I recently went on a weekend Haven holiday break on the coast with the clang.  I was slightly surprised that the detector in our cabin was not working, even more surprised the carbon monoxide detector was not working. Found out during the weekend this was the norm with most of the cabins.

Now if you consider the risk at these places with the above not being in place (thinking more when the occupants are sleeping and the very slack compartmentation in place (most have gas cookers not electrical).

Surely these kind of places get regularly checked by enforcing authorities????
Title: Re: Holiday Cottage
Post by: nearlythere on October 28, 2009, 04:52:51 PM
Slightly off topic here.

I recently went on a weekend Haven holiday break on the coast with the clang.  I was slightly surprised that the detector in our cabin was not working, even more surprised the carbon monoxide detector was not working. Found out during the weekend this was the norm with most of the cabins.

Now if you consider the risk at these places with the above not being in place (thinking more when the occupants are sleeping and the very slack compartmentation in place (most have gas cookers not electrical).

Surely these kind of places get regularly checked by enforcing authorities????
There has been discussion on this matter in the past as to their status ie. single family dwellings or otherwise. Maybe someone can turn it up.
Title: Re: Holiday Cottage
Post by: Midland Retty on October 28, 2009, 05:05:46 PM
Slightly off topic here.

I recently went on a weekend Haven holiday break on the coast with the clang.  I was slightly surprised that the detector in our cabin was not working, even more surprised the carbon monoxide detector was not working. Found out during the weekend this was the norm with most of the cabins.

Now if you consider the risk at these places with the above not being in place (thinking more when the occupants are sleeping and the very slack compartmentation in place (most have gas cookers not electrical).

Surely these kind of places get regularly checked by enforcing authorities????

Hi Hammer

I cant be 100% sure on this but Ive a feeling that this would fall under the Local Authority's remit. If so you will find unfortunately that County / Shire councils dont have the resources comparible to larger metro / city councils thus you will find there are only a handful of enforcement officers to cover such a large area.

Title: Re: Holiday Cottage
Post by: hammer1 on November 02, 2009, 10:12:51 PM
 ???

RP is someone with control of premises, you pay to stay in these places as you would with B&B's. Hotels etc. You have no control of these premises (i.e you don't bring a detector with you for your stay).  Same with staying at caravan parks. If you owned cabin/caravan then I totally agree about the private dwelling/outside FSO limits.

It also mention chalets, holiday parks in the sleeping accommodation guidance document.
Title: Re: Holiday Cottage
Post by: kurnal on November 02, 2009, 10:31:40 PM
Yes it does mention chalets in the sleeping acocmmodation guidance, I know there are numerous opinions on this, I have heard Dr Rosemary Everton give her views on this- her view at the time was that they are not domestic premises and therfore are subject to the Order. I dont think the DCLG have given any further guidance on this yet.

Another angle is trading standards. Certainly in terms of furniture, gas installations etc the supply of these goods in rented accommodation in the course of a business is considered to be a hire transaction and is coverd by all the consumer safety legislation and specific safety regulations. This is the concern of the county trading standards department, whilst serious property defects would be dealt with by the environmental health officer if a tenant may be at risk of injury.
Title: Re: Holiday Cottage
Post by: Clevelandfire 3 on November 03, 2009, 01:38:11 AM
yes it does mention holiday parks but only refers to the communal areas, fire points, means for calling fire service and such like. It does not apply to the chalet themselves