FireNet Community
FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => General Interest => Topic started by: CivvyFSO on July 23, 2010, 11:24:24 PM
-
From the main www.fire.org.uk page - is this forum supposed to be hidden? :P
-
Been like that for some time now
-
Yeah i have to look at my usage history to keep logging on. Chris or Kurnal thats one for you and may be why we havent had much traffic recently.
-
Just noted that the forum login function is back on home page. But no option or info on how new members can join it.
-
Still reckon absence of traffic isdown toperception of closed club elitism
-
To be fair you are not the most welcoming of individuals that I have encountered in fact beligerant could be your buzz word.
I have never encountered such a closed shopfor a long time.
I often question why I bother to post or contribute. Again ask yourselves why such a small number of posters from circa 5000 members.
-
To be fair you are not the most welcoming of individuals that I have encountered in fact beligerant could be your buzz word.
I have never encountered such a closed shopfor a long time.
I often question why I bother to post or contribute. Again ask yourselves why such a small number of posters from circa 5000 members.
You're not serious are you? I received nothing but a warm welcome form this forum when I joined and as a result of being a forum member I have had a fair number of e-mails with useful info and useful contacts from other forum members. Yes the forum is somewhat more robust than certain well-known professional institution forums but I thought you'd welcome that ;)
I think the low membership is more to do with the difficulty of finding the forum in the first place - but "closed club elitism"? Are we reading the same forum? (and for the record I've never been a member of the Fire service but I felt wlecome here from day 1)
-
I think it is a very unclear forum, what is it for?!
I have a look every so often and really am finding myself not bothering writing anything.
Every so often someone posts an interesting topic and it just starts arguments from the same old people arguing the same old topics (wasn't like this in my day blah blah blah) It quite often seems that people post to show off about how much they know rather than writing in a way as to add input or help the poster. Im not say question techniques/guidance but back it up with a decent reason why, not just the government are cr*p are no one apart from me knows what they are talking about!
Firenet is a great idea that unfortunately seems to of been trodden into the ground (for various reasons). Any new people looking at joining will see all of this clickyness and will not bother. They may just do a search for an answer and leave it. It is supposed to be interactive is it not? Is it not supposed to be from all over the fire safety world? Of all experiences? Well its not. From reading a lot of the posts it seems like none of you like each other!!
We may as well call it one upmanshipnet.com
-
phew that feels better 8)
-
To be fair you are not the most welcoming of individuals that I have encountered in fact beligerant could be your buzz word.
I have never encountered such a closed shopfor a long time.
I often question why I bother to post or contribute. Again ask yourselves why such a small number of posters from circa 5000 members.
Bleve, there are many members on this forum who are very opinionated.
In my opinion there are also some members who have spent such a long period of their lives telling the public, in an authoritarian manner, what they should do, that they therefore automatically expect to be listened to and obeyed!
All of this can possibly make those of, maybe, 'a sensitive disposition' feel that this forum is a tad unfriendly. There are even some members who will get a bit aggressive if you don't agree with them.
I have also noticed that there are now very few fire alarm engineers left who post on this forum. They have moved on to a friendlier forum with more like-minded members. I believe that some of them felt that their expertise in areas that some of the 'opinionated persons' knew little about, was totally ignored, unappreciated or misunderstood on Firenet.
However, there are also many members of Firenet who are friendly, funny, helpful and provide good advice and expertise. I continually learn important, relevant and interesting information on Firenet in areas that I previously knew very little about.
You will normally find the most friendly and welcoming sort of Firenet members in the 'Banter Bar' of this forum. My experience is that anyone is welcome there to socialise and talk rubbish, but only after receiving matron's medications!
-
Bleve / Piglet
Sorry to hear you have negative experiences on Firenet.
Alot of members have been using the forum for years, and know each other. This is perhaps why its seems a bit cliquey. Please be assured this is not the case.
Anyone is welcome and encouraged to contribute to the forum. It's always good to get different viewpoints and opinions.
There are people than contribute regularly. I wouldnt call them know it alls or show offs. We all have a right to an opinion, and whilst sometimes there can be passionate arguments on the threads the reader is always left to make up their own minds on teh subject and hopefully see two or three sides to an argument.
Clearly there won't always be posts or threads or subjects of interest to every single member - if there is nothing which floats your boat then why not start a thread relating to something that does interest you.
I think the recent forum move to another server is mainly responsible for decrease in forum traffic.
Wiz I was quite shocked to hear about your fellow fire alarm engineers, please do encourage them to return.
-
Wiz I was quite shocked to hear about your fellow fire alarm engineers, please do encourage them to return.
Sorry M.R. they have gone to what they obviously believe is paradise; talking techie stuff between themselves on a peer to peer basis and, most importantly, without, it seems, any petty sniping (or any that I've detected)
I believe they are lost to Firenet forever. Firenet never ever had a section that was related specifically to fire alarm systems and they have very little interest in the questions about fire engines, fire doors and use of foam on aeroplane fires etc. Worst of all I think that some of them thought that they were being talked down to by firemen who didn't know their analogue value from their end-of-line!
I suppose it is not unusual that people join groups with those that they can communicate with at the same level, but it is a shame because some of the 'lost boys' could answer some really in-depth technical questions about specific items of fire alarm equipment.
We need to make Firenet a bit more Fire Alarm engineer friendly. That is, of course, if we even want them posting here.
-
Its quite obvious that numbers are dwindling so out of interest what would you all do to improve it?
Who is firenet aimed at? Fire Fighters? Consultants? Fire Engineers? Alarm techs etc?
Should there be a section dedicated for each discipline?
-
I think it is a very unclear forum, what is it for?!
I have a look every so often and really am finding myself not bothering writing anything.
Every so often someone posts an interesting topic and it just starts arguments from the same old people arguing the same old topics (wasn't like this in my day blah blah blah) It quite often seems that people post to show off about how much they know rather than writing in a way as to add input or help the poster. Im not say question techniques/guidance but back it up with a decent reason why, not just the government are cr*p are no one apart from me knows what they are talking about!
Firenet is a great idea that unfortunately seems to of been trodden into the ground (for various reasons). Any new people looking at joining will see all of this clickyness and will not bother. They may just do a search for an answer and leave it. It is supposed to be interactive is it not? Is it not supposed to be from all over the fire safety world? Of all experiences? Well its not. From reading a lot of the posts it seems like none of you like each other!!
We may as well call it one upmanshipnet.com
Piglet, there are a lot of people who are very expert in many subjects on Firenet.
I also believe that most people who do know something worth knowing, will find it difficult to explain a subject fully without sounding like they are pontificating.
Many answers have to include sub-answers that appear to be taking the answer away from the original subject but if they are not mentioned at the time someone later picks up on it with 'aah but what about.....' type comments.
I understand the point you are making, but suggest that, like most of us, you just wade through all the opinion, advice and bulls*t and try to select that which is relevant to your needs. Surely, most posts add something to the debates, even if it is given in what appears to be a condescending manner? !!!
-
Many hours have been freely donated to some great worthwhile advice on an expanse of topics. Although the forum is now in black & white (and a bit of blue) it's not always easy to give a quick, succinct remedy to a problem of which only a very limited amount of info is given.
But, to add a little humour/banter some add some bits in... sometimes ridiculing or scathing (usually hurtfulness un-intended) and sometimes we get a bit of something that it not deserved or warranted - a sort of E-fisty e cuffs. But hey, that's usaully sorted out soon enough and on we go to the Banter Bar.
You know, to keep anything going, it takes one or a few to inject the lead threads to carry us on our voyage. So, if you don't join in or appoint yourself to take the helm or be admiral of the fleet, sit back and just read.
Some questions are asked again & again in slightly different verse. But the posts get an answer. You could just look back over the thousands of posts gone before.
Search engines? Well, some existing users/members have had problems getting re-logged on. So if the site is not coming up as often. The way my IT works, the site is not as versatile as it once was. I'll get over it.
With the E-World Banter Bar Society, it seems alot safer a place to be than many other chat rooms...
There's life down there Jim, but not as we know it. Warp factor 10 Chekov...
-
Oh I agree guys, it has its worth. But stating the facts that there is so many members and so few posters how do we increase the input?
I liken it to an imbred village (no offence!) the genepool needs to expand so how would you go about doing it?
Talking amongst your (our) selves is all well and good but actually you can get more out of it with more contributors.
-
Warp factor 10 Chekov...
*sighs* - Chekov was the Navigator. It's Sulu you need for the warp factoring... ::)
(hurtfulness unintended :P )
-
Meerkat, But... Sulu is asleep, cannot you hear him snoring? It's actually vibrating the warp thruster intercooler, Scotty canee hold it much longer...
-
beligerant
Belligerent.
I often question why I bother to post or contribute.
I ask myself the same. Then I remind myself that to suggest I actually "contribute" is stretching it a bit. (I hope you appreciate the effort made there NOT to insult you)
-
Perhaps a mailshot to all existing members stating that the site is back up and running, and the login feature is fully restored, etc, will help entice some of our lost members back.
Then as Wiz has suggested more specific interest sections, fire alarms and other bits and bobs!
And just another note, a point was made specifically about firefighters and fire safety inspectors who are used to people automatically listening to them, or thinking they know more than fire alarm engineers. I cant agree with that and actually the vast majority are non fire service
Its important not to try and lay blame at anyone specific group of people, or otherwise. For the most part I think people do get along here and new members are welcomed - i'd be interested to know why Bleve felt that elitism was playing its part.
Perhaps they could also suggest what they would like to see on the forums, as this may also benefit any new prospective members.
-
................And just another note, a point was made specifically about firefighters and fire safety inspectors who are used to people automatically listening to them, or thinking they know more than fire alarm engineers. I cant agree with that and actually the vast majority are non fire service...........
Oooops that was me!
I'm not meaning to disrespect Fire Service personnel generally.
I have met and dealt with hundreds of them over the last 30 years and it is true to say that only a very few of them were useless. Most were helpful, knowledgeable and, most importantly, easy to work with. However, I did meet a few who had the attitude 'you will do as I say, even though you are telling me I am wrong and you can prove it'!
I apologise if any current or ex fire service personnel were offended by my comment. Although if there aren't many on Firenet, as M.R. suggests, hopefully no-one was offended.
However, if there are only a few members who are Fire Service, then surely the whole Firenet site needs re-vamping - because it certainly looks Fire Service orientated to me.
-
It looks Fire service oriented, but isn't in practice - no one really uses it for issues relating to Fire Service recruitment, tactics, banter, HR, etc.
It's evolved more towards a general fire safety forum and needs to be remodelled to that with a better breakdown of sections in that way-
Alarms
EL
MoE
PFE
FRA
Training
Law/guidance
bit of everything
Engineering
Specialist - Healthcare
Specialist - Aviation
Specialist - marine
etc etc
I too now mainly use firealarmengineers.com for that side of things as well - I can get help quickly that way from several sources.
This site needs a remodel & better publicity
-
It needs to be less clicky, IMO banterboat should be taken to deep water and scuppered for good.
MR elitism was possibly an incorrect description selected after one too many glenmorangie late in the evening.
I certainly think that the forum should be subjected to examination with a view of obtaining a wider input.
-
beligerant
Belligerent.
I often question why I bother to post or contribute.
I ask myself the same. Then I remind myself that to suggest I actually "contribute" is stretching it a bit. (I hope you appreciate the effort made there NOT to insult you)
I actually look forward to your attempt at insult. Without you this forum would not be quite the same, better perhaps but not the same.
Forgive me for mispelling belligerent may be a spull chucker would be a handy addition to the forum. Also do you have any f***** idea it is to see the response window on an IPHONE
-
I would like to thank you all for your thoughts and ideas on the layout of the Forum.
As you know the FireNet Forum was created to service the Fire Safety Officers initially but times have changed as well as responsibilities.
I will certainly add the topics that have been mentioned by AnthonyB and would most welcome your thoughts ideas on what other areas you would like to see covered on the Forum.
As always the FireNet Forum was developed to provided an area to exchange ideas and techniques which I hope will be of benefit to all our members.
Should you need to get in touch you can contact me via the forum message system.
Thanks for all your continued support
Colin Simpson
PS for all of those that don't know me I am NOT Colin Todd in any shape or form (No disrespect to the real CS Todd)
-
Thanks for the endorsement Bleve. I didnt realise I had been beligerant towards you on this thread. May I suggest that if someone questions you or argues with you it isnt a personal attack. We are all different and just because we argue professionally doesnt mean in any way shape or form that we dont like the person arguing with us. The tone of a reply cannot always be judged over the internet - a lesson I learnt to my detrement on these forums myself. Your summary of me was unjustified, also your comment about the "banterboat needing to be sunk" completely irelevant to the rest of the forum.
The banter thread is very much a tongue in cheek thread with absolutely nothing to do with with fire safety, and im not sure why you choose to attack that in your summary of the firenet forum. If you dont like that particular small section then dont read it. I dont think youve ever contributed to it and if you did im sure you would be most welcomed.
I make one and final point. Non fire service people on here far out number fire service personnel on this site so i think your comments were unjustified too Wiz. Ive never seen the problems you mention about inspectors being bolshy on this forum, or firefighters telling fire alarm engineers their job.Dare i mention a certain fire consultant who is very sharp with his tongue? I just cant see how this is fire service orientated either with many fire risk assessors myself included making comments. How is that fire service orientated. jBut everyone is entitled to their opinion and i would never say otherwise. I agree special interest sections should be created for thos who want them.
The decline in membership did occur after the site alterations and i think that is glaringly obvious. Piuglet and BLeve are the first people ive known to complain. That is their right. And im not saying firenet is perfect. But lets remember its free, that people work hard to keep it free and available, and frankly if you think its that bad then why waste your time here. Just my opinion of course and not meant with mallice.
-
What summary of you was that
-
The level of interest by members is about the same as it as always been. In most forums there are always far more lurkers than participants, which includes me.
As for the categories I have never found any problem in finding one to ask my question in, and then I accept all the submission to form an opinion. There is always somebody who has the depth of knowledge to help you out. I am sure if a new specialist category is required then I am sure this could be accommodated.
I also do not care who responds whether it’s a small group of regular contributors or some person I have never heard of before. Because after a short time you soon find out whom you can trust and those you need to treat with caution (I haven’t found many of them). Also if you expect members to accept contributor’s pearls of wisdom without question then forget it.
I believe this is all about personalities and not about how effective the forum is.
-
What summary of you was that
That i dont come across as very nice.
The point is with respect to you Bleve you havent perhaps seen the full picture. Dont get me wrong if things can be done better to appeal to more prospective members then lets do it. Tell us how things need to be changed.Offer some options on how firenet could be better, but by virtue of your complaining and not merely ignoring the site tells me something. So put those complaints into something we can quantify understand and put right.
Im going to also ask piglet about his question about what firenet forums are for? Ill reverse that question what does he think of the forums are for and why they arent his cup of tea. Again thats not me being antagonistic. I just genuinely want to know.
-
I have been using firenet now for a number of years, many like me as has already been noted don't always post. I find it a great forum to thrash out ideals, there is great knowledge among many of the members. Yes I don't always agree with what they say but very little in our world is black & white anyway. Just because views are robustly challenged doesnt make something wrong.
All forums give the impression of being cliquey particularly to newbie. To state they are unwelcoming or elitist is very insulting.
Finally the banter bar is just that a knockabout scatty forum no one is compelled to read it but it can certianly lighten up a sometimes dull evening.
(apologies for any spelling errors I borrowed cleveys spill chicker)
-
Firenet, as far as Im concerned , is an excellent resource, and there are people behind the scenes who devote their time in administering and maintaining the site. They dont have to do that, and dont get paid for doing that. Perhaps we should bear that in mind.
-
To be fair I don't think anyone criticised any one running firenet , one or two made comment based on our experience with some on the forum.
It was postulated that certain perception may be one factor in diminished use of the forum.
-
Bleve, I applaud your attempts to increase the use of Firenet.
I think the increase can only be achieved by encouraging new members to use it. I don't know how it can be achieved but surely everybody's ideas are welcome.
I've just checked the forum statistics and note that a number of the top ten posters no longer post as much as they used to. I believe Graeme now mostly posts where the fire alarm engineers are most happy, Benzerari has obviously returned to whatever far-flung planet he originates from (shame, he was always coming up with some fun and crazy ideas)! and I'm sure C.T. will still post if he thinks anything is worthwhile enough to comment on. But others in the top ten still post regularly. I suspect that most of the people who only post a few times are not that interested in having a say on any of the current subjects.
I can't believe that anyone is being scared away from Firenet by the other members or by its content. I honestly think that not enough people know about the forum or don't think it is relevant enough to them.
With respect to the personality of the forum I beleive that any forum will take on the personality of it's members. There is no way that you can alter the current personality unless you get rid of it's current member's. If a single member wants to change the personality of the forum he'll never be able to do it by himself. But if he can encourage enough new like-minded people to use it, the forum's personality will automatically change to include the personalities of those new members.
In any forum people need to stand up and make themselves heard. I encourage all members to join in on posts if they have anything to add. Embrace argument as a prerequisite of any forum. Don't be afraid of ridicule, I believe other members will never allow such ridicule to get out of hand. Don't be afraid of abuse, I believe the moderators know how to adequately deal with that.
So everybody who has any sort of interest in the subjects should just join in and see where it takes them. They might even stamp their personality on the Forum and take it in the direction they would like to see it take.
And if anyone can't stand those idiots who frequent the Banter Bar, my advice is just to ignore them and focus on the serious stuff. I personally believe the Banter Bar has a useful purpose.; it is somewhere that the people who can't find any otherposts to get involved in have somewhere to keep in touch with each other. I personally have not had a fire alarm post to get involved with on Firenet for weeks and if it wasn't for the Banter Bar I think I would lose total interest in Firenet (even though Kurnal is my hero)
-
I can see the wisdom in having the banter threa, I just cant seem tofollow the banter ship and other posts on it, hardly the goonies or monty pythonesque. :(
-
Maybe there should be a new member thread where new members can introduce themselves and get used to the more established members.
I say this on noticing there were 94 new members during the month of July and 89 during June yet very few are known, this is a pity because they must have some interest in the area of fire and fire safety but we have not managed to interest them in posting either by way of question or answer.
-
I can see the wisdom in having the banter threa, I just cant seem tofollow the banter ship and other posts on it, hardly the goonies or monty pythonesque. :(
It's banter Bleve, banter.
Do you mean the Goons?
-
I can see the wisdom in having the banter threa, I just cant seem tofollow the banter ship and other posts on it, hardly the goonies or monty pythonesque. :(
The banter thread was put there in an effort to keep any 'banter' out of the threads. It has, since its inception, steadily become a haven for the mentally disturbed. You know the banter thread is 100% drivel, so don't click on it.
-
I can see the wisdom in having the banter threa, I just cant seem tofollow the banter ship and other posts on it, hardly the goonies or monty pythonesque. :(
Bleve, I agree it appears so to a new visitor. The Banter Thread is not only full of off-the-wall humour it is also full of references to earlier discussions. Of course, this makes it difficult for a new visitor to understand (actually all threads can be like this), but everyone is welcome to join in. Either read it for a while, get in the swing of the current ramblings, and join in when you are ready. Or just jump straight in. If you say anything worthwhile it will be picked up by the other very friendly posters, if not, they won't throw you out, but just assume you are another resident of this home of the terminally bewildered who is rambling incoherently due to Matron's medication!
I agree it is not Pythonesque. As a person old enough to say they watched every episode of Monty Python when it was originally screened I can confirm that it is often better than Python. (there were many poor Python sketches!)
Most importantly, The Banter Thread, is a very small part of Firenet. If you can't see the point of it, just avoid it.
I would personally say that the appearance of so many Banter Thread ramblings in the 'Latest Post' list is annoying to those who are looking for serious discussion. It is a shame that the site owner couldn't arrange for these to be listed seperately.
-
Maybe there should be a new member thread where new members can introduce themselves and get used to the more established members.
Bleve, Maybe the site puppet-masters will pick up on this and provide such a facility.
I personally can't see the point of it. I couldn't imagine what I would want to say as a new member without it sounding insignificant and uninteresting (if being humble) or pompous (normal mode). I believe new members should just keep adding their posts on any subject that interests them. If anyone else is also interested they will get response and the new member will soon be in the swing of it and probably join in on the banter ramblings, as well.
I'm also disappointed in the low number of posts these days, and specifically in my areas of particular interest; Fire Alarms and BS5839. I love answering questions on something I have 30 years experience of and especially if I can pass on something I consider to be worthwhile. Haven't had a good question for months. Maybe no-one is installing fire alarms anymore!
-
Maybe there should be a new member thread where new members can introduce themselves and get used to the more established members.
Maybe no-one is installing fire alarms anymore!
I think that's the problem in the current economic climate Wiz.
I was expecting an increase in people asking for advice on how thay could avoid or reduce the level of FA systems and still satisfy the demands of the EA.
-
Ladies and Gents,
Thanks for the suggestions. You'll hopefully have noticed that we did respond to the very important complaint about the lack of link from firenet.org.uk and have also taken action to address some of the issues raised immediately by adding more sub sections.
I would suggest that we'll never please all the people all of the time, but the feedback is certainly welcome. I for one have a pretty unreliable connection to the internet and it is only when people give us this feedback that we can start to plan solutions.
Please continue to let us know if things can be improved. Colin is the boss, Kurnal and myself do have some input.
And of course new members are welcome, I hope we are as welcoming as possible. Most forums seem cliquey at first to outsiders. Many are very chaotic and full of abuse and flaming. Firenet is mostly self moderating and frequented by ladies and gents of the highest caliber but where very occasionally necessary, I try to keep the standards just a little bit higher than your average forum.
Thanks Retty for pointing out the voluntary nature of our input. But don't fret too much, with the recent software upgrade enabling us to view posters via your laptop webcams, we are rewarded handsomely via amusement at the fashion choices of FireNetters.
All feedback is welcome.
-
Wow. I have been on holiday for two weeks and its taken me three days to read the posts.
Thanks for this thread. It is brilliant and most informative of your needs and wishes. And has brought out the best of the forum in my view.
I have recently been asked to join the team as one of the administrators just because I spend a lot of time on here and have a history of winging to Colin over its recent decline. I think Colin asked me to join on the basis of if you cant beat them join them.
I am glad to see ABs suggestion taken forward so quickly- it was a fairly common concern that we appeared to be wholly fire service orientated from the layout of the menu but nothing was further from the truth.
Looking at site statistics things are moving forwards again- 60 applications for membership over this weekend- though many of these are spammers and robots.
Being completely frank my reasons for posting here are not entirely altruistic. Firenet has brought me many customers- just on the basis of being seen to offer free advice in a consistent and I hope sensible and reliable manner. Many of these customers have also become friends because of the ongoing contact, in a way that just does not happen with the normal business relationship. In addition through the forum I have met other like minded spcialists in other related fields- fire engineers and alarm engineers for example- whom I now recommend to my clients and whom I use on a sub contractor basis.
For this reason I am keener than most of you to keep bringing the forum to a wider audience and am constantly asking Colin to do what he can to re-instate our former success on the major search engines.
-
Just to back BLEVE, there are just over 51,084 postings, and 4898 members.
Believe it or not one third (17,247) of those postings are generated by just TEN members.
I bet if you look,less than 100 members have posted in the last year
davo
-
Just to back BLEVE, there are just over 51,084 postings, and 4898 members.
Believe it or not one third (17,247) of those postings are generated by just TEN members.
I bet if you look,less than 100 members have posted in the last year
davo
Hahaha ;D
-
there are just over 51,084 postings, and 4898 members.
Believe it or not one third (17,247) of those postings are generated by just TEN members.
Then they should get on with some work!! (Just kidding ;D)
I've been on and off this site for a while now and have to say that it's interesting as a Fire & Rescue Service person to get the opinion/views/thoughts of those assisting responsible persons to meet the requirements of the law, particularly as I was one of those enforcing it!
I've never found the site cliquey, and have contributed to various topics which I have wanted to. I've always had it at the back of my mind that as an enforcing officer, it ws good to talk to those 'the other side of the fence'. There is a wealth of knowledge and expertise here, some of which is mis-used or not used.
The banter thread, which does ramble and aimlessly drift along is just that ... a non-sensical and random topic.
I will continue to look and post here, even though I have returned to an operational post.
;D ;D ;D