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FIRE SAFETY => Fire Risk Assessments => Topic started by: woody5746 on December 30, 2010, 03:32:10 PM
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Is their a particular standard or number of extinguishers that are required in residential flats? i was in a 7 storey block the other day and although there was a riser and reel there were no extinguishers to be seen yet i have seen them in other blocks i have visited?
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Woody. If you placed extinguishers in the common areas of blocks of flats how long would they last?
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whoops there's me forgetting not everyone is as respectful of property.... however this was quite a smart small block, whilst i admit no point putting them in basra i would ask if anyone knows if there is any legislation regarding this?
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The provision of firefighting equipment should be assessed via the fire risk assessment. however, should you choose to provide them i would ask who you are providing them for? the old BS5588:pt12 questioned the reasons for providing extinguishers in sheltered housing schemes.
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This matter was discussed at length at one time and maybe someone who keeps an index of the Forum topics might be able to point you to it.
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If its a purpose built block of flats, forget it, they are not required.
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As CT says, not needed. No legal requirement, no risk (or there shouldn't be), no trained users, risk of theft and vandalism. If the occupiers want to buy themselves one from B&Q that's up to them.
The only people who say you need them are often those who are also selling them, or people who don't really know what they are on about.
In the years I've been doing this job extinguishers are starting to appear to stupid levels in the wrong places, in too many numbers and inappropriate types and I'm actually requiring more to be ripped out than put in these days. My clients need to target their money at training, passive FP and fire detection and warning not loads of extinguishers that serve no purpose than making someone money.
And I am very pro extinguishers usually, but it's getting beyond a joke now, too many suppliers doing 'risk assessments' to try and sell as many extinguishers, blankets and glow in the dark signs as they can (& still they get it wrong, I've seen firms happily put water & CO2 extinguishers on plain concrete unfurnished, undecorated, unused except to evacuate, fire stairs, yet try and cover a 45 litre cooking oil fryer with a blanket and ABC Powder extinguisher!)
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As CT says, not needed. No legal requirement, no risk (or there shouldn't be), no trained users, risk of theft and vandalism. If the occupiers want to buy themselves one from B&Q that's up to them.
The only people who say you need them are often those who are also selling them, or people who don't really know what they are on about.
In the years I've been doing this job extinguishers are starting to appear to stupid levels in the wrong places, in too many numbers and inappropriate types and I'm actually requiring more to be ripped out than put in these days. My clients need to target their money at training, passive FP and fire detection and warning not loads of extinguishers that serve no purpose than making someone money.
And I am very pro extinguishers usually, but it's getting beyond a joke now, too many suppliers doing 'risk assessments' to try and sell as many extinguishers, blankets and glow in the dark signs as they can (& still they get it wrong, I've seen firms happily put water & CO2 extinguishers on plain concrete unfurnished, undecorated, unused except to evacuate, fire stairs, yet try and cover a 45 litre cooking oil fryer with a blanket and ABC Powder extinguisher!)
It's the powders still being placed in kitchens that gets me.
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Also, whatever the occupancy (unless you need Class B cover) then a hosereel is entirely suitable, indeed better than an extinguisher
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Also, whatever the occupancy (unless you need Class B cover) then a hosereel is entirely suitable, indeed better than an extinguisher
In the hands of a trained firefighter a hosereel is no doubt better than an extinguisher.
But for use by the public or employees they also bring numerous disadvantages which outweigh any potential benefits arising from an inexhaustible supply of water.
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.........as does an extinguisher.
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A recent survey by the FIA indicates that 89% of all fires are put out using portable extinguishers - theres a lot to be said for first aid firefighting and extinguishers are clearly doing a good job in that respect. However its horses for courses.
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Another recent survey, by the Statistical Institute found that 85% of people do not believe statistics and that 70% are made up.
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To quote G. K. Chesterton " There are lies, damned lies and then there are statistics".
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Heres the data on which the press release was based.Haven't done the arithmetic myself.
http://www.fia.uk.com/fia/filemanager/root/site_assets/news/others/pfe_questionnaire_data_2009_all_fia_data_141209.xls
Prejudices subsist in people's imagination long after they have been destroyed by their experience. (Ernest Dimnet)
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To quote G. K. Chesterton " There are lies, damned lies and then there are statistics".
Beware of quoting http://www.york.ac.uk/depts/maths/histstat/lies.htm. ;D
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Kurnel
I am surprised that you took the time to answer the point on hose reels.
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Hose reels were very popular up until the late 70's early 80's and since then they have rapidly declined in popularity.
They haven't been put in new builds for a considerable number of years now and in the buildings where they were put in during the 60's/70's the vast majority have been drained off or removed completely and this withdrawal continues over time in a pretty painless way as most buildings have extinguisher provision that discounts the hose reels so no extras are required.
The pros and cons have been done to death in several threads in this forum so I won't repeat them (again).
Although fiction 'The Towering Inferno' illustrates early on one of the flaws of hose reels in normal buildings - the users in this case would have long since evacuated safely if they had only messed around for 15 seconds with the US mainstay of the 5lb ABC Powder extinguisher
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I wish every extinguisher person was as sensible & trustworthy as Anthony, its a real pleasure to hear such good sense
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An interesting one in the data was the use of a DP in student housing. A recipe for a mess or not?
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Literally! But more use in the untrained hand than a water or water and CO2 combination - although the secondary damage is notable and the respiratory effects a bit throat catching it isn't outright dangerous on most fires the students would encounter.