FireNet Community
FIRE SAFETY => Portable Firefighting Equipment => Topic started by: AnthonyB on June 07, 2011, 11:13:08 PM
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NOTE TO END USERS - TOTAL are a trade supplier and you will have obtained these through an extinguisher service company so if you do not recognise the brand do not automatically ignore this and actually look at the extinguishers!
TOTAL – FLAMEFAST SAFETY BULLETIN
Dear Colleagues,
It has come to our notice that there have been a small number of incidents relating to valves on the 2kg and 5kg aluminium CO2 extinguishers sold in the UK under the TOTAL and FLAMEFAST brand names. It appears that stress corrosion cracking has caused the valve to fail on an extremely small number of occasions. The risk of an incident is very low but it may increase if the extinguishers are handled without following our instructions. On rare occasions, the valves may be ejected under high speed to cause severe injuries.
The safety of our customers is our utmost priority and as a precaution, we are asking customers not to use, service and/or move the affected extinguishers themselves in any way, and following standard safety practices, should not lean directly over the head of the extinguisher.
These incidents relate to a small number of the 2kg and 5kg extinguishers which were sold between 2007 and April 2011. These extinguishers can easily be identified:
- by their labels which are clearly marked with either the FLAMEFAST or TOTAL brands
- they are a CO2 extinguisher with a 2kg or 5kg capacity and
- the valves are stamped ‘231’.
The valves in question, which are in line with all approvals and certifications (CE) were purchased by Tyco and did not meet the supplier’s specifications.
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Do we know whereabouts on the valve is stamped "231"?
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What are the instructions for servicing companies AB? Presumably it's a removal with care and replace???
Once again, no communication direct from the manufacturer to their customers or service providers.
John
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Have found the following letter which states the units were manufactured between April 2006 and March 2011.
http://www.expressfire.com/Tyco_Distributor_Letter_0611.pdf
It is undated and we have had no communication as yet from Express/Tyco.
John
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It would appear that the problem only occurs in the UK under the flamefast brand (where some German units were imported) and Germany under other brand names, although we wait firm confirmation of this.
John
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The more detailed UK specific warning direct from TYCO UK the importer (Express are TYCO's appointed distribution agent, but TOTAL is a TYCO company) clearly states that all UK TOTAL extinguishers may be affected - very few TOTAL items are sold as 'Flamefast', most are sold as TOTAL via Express Fire and the supplier adds their own company label, so don't be mislead by the Neuruppin letter.
I copied my text from the far more comprehensive TYCO document that includes photos & pictures of the two types of factory labelling & the extinguishers - both the more common TOTAL and less common Flamefast ones.
Stamping is normally on the face of part of the brass valve - it will include the year of manufacture and the CE mark, plus other numbers such as batch number, etc - this is where the 231 would be.
Again check anything TOTAL!
(Ironically TYCO, although owning TOTAL, don't use their extinguishers in the UK, instead briefly used Excelsius and more recently Firemark!)
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I think this is going to be massive.
John
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Anthony
Can't find any details on the Tyco site, have you got a link?
davo
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I understood that there was a big conference last week about the problem and special tools were being made to assist with recovery.
TG have written to customers saying that they do not use the valves. Several large suppliers are still using the valves....I'm still installing them. We need to know what's going on, this is not a little problem with a low pressure unit, we're talking CO2's with 50 bar pressure.
I too can find nothing on any suppliers site except a copy of the letter on the Express Fire site.
John
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Also believe that 234 is the critical number stamped on the valve of the UK affected units. 231 applies in other countries.
Note that Isogard have recalled CO2 units in France.
John
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I have no link to the TYCO recall as I got it via the British Fire Consortium, the Neuruppin one via Express has similar text but not the two pages of pictures of the units and labels involved.
Considering these are proper pressure vessels it's not the best recall in the world, TG & Gloria have been better in the past.
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Latest amendment:
http://www.bafe.org.uk/uploads/DOC4E0B2D3EBBDFF.pdf
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Which doesn't help much beyond the correct number, still a mystery what to do next other than put up Danger UXB signs!
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At last a little clarification.....been waiting for this for over a month now.
What, however, are the other manufacturers/refurbishing companies doing about it? These valves were not exclusive to Tyco.
I'm still installing new and refurbished equipment with these valves on....they're on my vans now!
John
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Allegedly TG have sent some customers a letter saying their stuff isn't affected, but beyond that heard nothing, I may (if I get chance) drop Jewel & PJ a line to see their take.
The problem is so many virtual identical (in appearance & stamping) valves come out of several different Chinese factories it's difficult to keep track of!
If it's the valves used by ZHEJIANG ORIENTX FIRE SAFETY EQUIPMENT CO.,LTD then there is a wide problem as that would include TG, Firex, Titan and Jactone Economy ranges.
Excelsius seem to come from Zhejiang Winner Fire Fighting Equipment Co.,Ltd.
Not sure on PJ Fire & Jewel as both say they have their own factories out there.
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PJ and JSP both deny any problem exists with their valves despite them appearing to be the same ones, stamped 234.
Surely if they are the same valve, the problem exists irrespective of which manufacturer/refurbishers label is on the body of the extinguisher?
John
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Yes, if they are from the same batch from the same Chinese factory, but they may well not be as their are dozens of factories there making identical components, it's very difficult to back trace the origin of some stuff.
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Hi all,
It would be good to get an update on this, as the manufacturers/distributors have proven to be pretty cagey about any kind of response.
Our suppliers have been provided with some pretty hefty looking clamp arrangement, which allows them to secure the extinguisher, and I know that so far on "our" sites, we have had approximately 25 extinguishers replaced.
Some of those were supplied by our source, some were inherited as part of take-over maintenance contracts.
Has there been any more information from Tyco/Total/Flamefast?
I only ask as we are not primarily an extinguisher supplier, and this seems to have gone quiet. Has it just gone away?
Bill
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It's been quietly buried as most service firms have ignored it (actually that's unfair - most won't even know about it).
A few firms are using the clamps, but it's a lot of faffing & faffing is money wasted, so it's not being followed by many.
Most of the other main manufacturers/importers have now released "ours won't pop" letters.
Unless a few actually go bang in user's premises I doubt we will hear anything again.
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I had one customer (a college) where I had identified 40 of these affected units. Contacted Tyco who were helpful and useless all at the same time.
They wanted US to BUY their specially made tool, remove the extinguishers to a safe place, then,under "danger of death", discharge THEIR faulty units, replace them with the new ones that we would have had to BUY from Tyco and send them back to Tyco at OUR expense. Needless to say when it came to compensation for my engineers time, travel distance etc etc, nothing could be sanctioned. A full credit would have then been issued for the affected units and the clamp if returned promptly.
Then the annual service on the college's extinguishers came. We started to attach "danger, do not touch" labels on the affected units (after the Tyco issue ones failed to materialise) and of course this immediately was picked up. So I took the decision upon myself to physically remove all these units to safe storage, replacing them with temporary loan units whilst discussions with Tyco continued.
In the end, we managed to get Tyco to agree to send an engineer down and sort them out. My engineer joined him on site and relocated the replacement units whilst the units were being clamped and discharged. It transpired that only 18 of the original 40 were actually affected.....the fire rating and kitemark apparently is critical.
No reimbursement of my time (many hours) or my engineers time and travelling.
I understand that this has been a massive problem for Tyco but at the same time feel that they should have thrown many more resources at it from day one and not left the middleman (the extinguisher company) to sort it out, particularly when we didn't supply them in the first place.
What now happens in the future? What happens if I pick up a new service contract where there are perhaps one or two affected units installed? It certainly isn't going to be worth my while contacting Tyco. If I tell the customer to contact Tyco direct, how will that go down? What do I do from my businesses perspective? Condemn it and sell them new? Service exchange it? Replace it free of charge?
What would you do?
John
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Have the trade associations taken any leadership role in representing their members concerns to Tyco? I would have thought that they would have wielded considerable commercial clout?
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One positive about UTC Group is when they had a problem with Gloria extinguishers they sent out the checking tools and newparts free.
TYCO are being the opposite making you pay for their error!
I've not come across any as fortunately there isn't too much TOTAL stuff about. If I did I would condemn it remove it and in a safe place discharge it making sure I'm not stood over it (standard service practice anyway) if they were that dangerous they would be having to do more.
The irony is TYCO don't even use their own extinguishers to supply their end user cusomers! After absorbing Wormald they used Gloria, then Firemark and currently Excelsius!