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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Fire Safety => Topic started by: lingmoor on March 29, 2012, 07:00:13 PM
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Ok daft question of the day
when the Fire Safety officer calls to 'inspect' what would you expect them to do
ie take a look at the FRA's (reviews), training, E/L FFE Fire Alarm records etc...anything else?
I suppose what i'm getting at is would you expect them to do a full site survey
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Not unless they considered in necessary. The process should be an "audit" of the RP and the FRA plus looking at records and forming an opinion after all they are enforcing the law not working for the RP.
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From experience it depends why they are there (complaint, post fire, previous issues or just your turn on the inspection programme) and what type of premises you are (for risk).
Sometimes it's paperwork and a snapshot of part of the premises and if all is well that's it (if not they do everywhere) other times it's the full Monty - some brigades will send two officers post enforcement, do a very in depth examination of the FRA and logs, Q&A session and full walk through.
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It’s quite common now for the fire officer to do a sample audit of the premises i.e. in a 5 storey building they may sample a couple of floors only. There are not as many FSOs as there used to be!
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The process is designed for the FSO to carry out an audit of the management of fire safety (rather than an inspection of the building) for the RP to demonstrate how the building has been assessed and is subsequently managed. Does it work?????? A complaint or post fire visit may involve more of an inspection as well to substantiate the nature of the complaint or the circumstances of the fire.
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Not a daft question - It is Friday, I always receive complaints or strange phone calls on Fridays.
I think Anthony best sums it up. it is very much dependent on why I am there. If it is a complain I might just deal with the complaint and leave. However, if while I am there I start seeing other problems I will arrange an appointment for a weeks time. if it is part of the risk based reinspection. then I will concentrate on a particular area. lets say residential care I will look at the areas that contributed to the Rosepark fire.
Most of the audit is now spent doing paperwork, the national audit form is probably available somewhere if you Google for it. The walk around is to validate the paperwork. Unfortunately, I very often look at the paperwork and think the result of the inspection might be verbal advice for a few minor items, and leave issuing a Notice.
When I make an appointment I will explain why I am coming and what to expect, I confirm the appointment in writing and give a rough indication how long it will take.
Remember that most (sorry I mean all) FSO`s will be happy to be give advice, be challenged on what they say and be open to alternatives. :)
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Googled it myself and found some CFOA guidance on the audit form review -
www.cfoa.org.uk/download/12655 (http://www.cfoa.org.uk/download/12655)
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Thank you for all your replies...
another one,
If a fire training session is scheduled at the time of the FSO visit, can they insist on sitting in?
I wouldn't see it as a problem...but can they insist?
all will be revealed as to me questions at a later date :)
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You never know- they might learn something......
I dont think they can or would insist during a normal planned audit, and would be over zealous if they did. Unless of course there was a specific fire safety complaint about the standard of training carried out under the Order. One commercial training provider in the East Midlands was subject to formal investigation last year over allegations in respect of the standard of his training but there was insufficient evidence to bring any charges.
Remember they follow the principles of the enforcement concordat. Heres some archive information- not sure of the current link since the election.
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file10150.pdf
The duty on the RP to train staff is of course imposed by the Order and the auditors will wish to satisfy themselves it is being carried out in a diligent manner. Sitting in on a course is one way of auditing this but there are better ways- asking staff specific questions, checking the knowledge received rather than broadcast is a better way.
Besides if they sit in it is doubtful that they would have time to sit through the entire session. If they did you could send them an invoice and a certificate. I would!
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For the CFOA circular 2008/1016 Revised Fire Safety Audit and Information Gathering Form. try http://library.rbfrs.co.uk/Public_Circulars/l5waw300.pdf and when you have completed the six week course on how to fill it in lets know.
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You might also want to look at the Regulators Compliance Code
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file45019.pdf (http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file45019.pdf)
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Thank you for your replies