FireNet Community
THE REGULATORY REFORM (FIRE SAFETY) ORDER 2005 => Q & A => Topic started by: jayjay on August 16, 2012, 12:23:03 PM
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Has any one had any involvment with Premises Guardians?
These are the people that are prepared to live in empty buildings for a nominal rent in order to maintain an occupier and thefore improve security.
A recent example is a School Building that has closed due to a new build school and has now been occupied by a number of independant people who will be living and sleeping there.
This paricular school is a grant aided school therfore not belonging to the local authority.
The fire safety provisons and previous risk assessmentwas related to school use and now with the proposed use as sleeping accomodation a revised risk assessment will be rquired.
If any one has experience of this situation I would appreciate details on how the RRO was applied and if there was any involvmet of the fire authority.
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Unfortunately they are now domestic premises and outside the scope of the legislation.
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Unfortunately they are now domestic premises and outside the scope of the legislation.
Are the premises not a HMO?
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Hi Jokar
I can not see how they can be classed as a domestic premises. The premises I have been asked about is a recently closed primary school and the Guardians are occupying a number of classrooms. Therefore there will be corridors which will be common areas. The RRO applies to common areas in flats and sheltered housing so it must at least apply to the corridor areas of the school.
Also there is rarely fire separation between classrooms and in older schools the standards of fire separation to exit stairs can be poor and detection can be limited.
Most rented flats will have smoke detection even if it is just battery operated.
My local FRS is looking at this situation so I will advise of any outcomes.
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Surely if you can't get it under the RRO there is the Housing Act.
Plus I would have thought they can't be classed as residential without planning permission for change of use and so they would be technically commercial tenants?
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its a material change of use under planning and building regs - the Local Authority should deal with it.
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its a material change of use under planning and building regs - the Local Authority should deal with it.
If its an old school it is probably the Local Authority doing it!
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The school is still a school and the residents are just there for security! Or are they, what is the intention of the owners of the school, is it to reuse the school or are they applying for planning permission for change of use?
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Update
The fire authority are still debating the issue and involving the Envirinmental Health Department. The school is a church school thefore not the responsibility of the Local Authority. The school is a primary school which is being replaced by a new build so I doubt that the builing will be used as a school again.
I will post details of any outcomes just thought some one else may have been through this.
There are number of companys offering premises guardians (do a Google) some say a fire risk assessment is carried out and that the prospective tennannt must purchase a fire safety pack for £80 which is a domenstic smoke alarm, a fire blanket and a small extinguisher.
I will have no involvement in the fire safety issues as the building fire safety responsibility has been handed back to the Dioceses
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'House Sitters' are performing a service (security) in what ever a small way. By way of renumeration (low rent, free electric, no council tax etc.), they are employed. The RRO covers work places for volunteers, paid/unpaid. Used to be that schools employed caretakers. Different way of looking at it.
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It is simple, straightforward RRO premises and most certainly NOT domestic premises.
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We have an empty office, 3 floors plus basement, that has been contracted to a Property Guardian company to secure. 3 separate persons are living there with shared facilities.
This building is now a HMO (albeit temporary), in my view, although the Guardian company states it is an office. FRA does not reflect the temporary use as HMO.
We are now investigating the implications for the organisation.
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A chair is still a chair even though theres no one sitting there.
When I fall asleep in my chair does that make it a bed?
Just a thought.
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This must depend on the intent. To be an office, factory, shop, whatever, it is assumed that the people there will be awake and alert, OK people may doze off but this is not the intent.
If people are intentionally going to sleep on a regular basis it is a different matter.
This is covered in BS 9999 in the A, B, and C occupancy characteristics. If the building is an office it will have an A occupancy, if people sleep there it will be C occupancy.
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Well, whatever it is, contemplating your belly button won't help.
If you think its dangerous, serve a notice.
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Hi JayJay
I have had involvement with premises occupied by Guardians. The RRO does apply, and suitable precautions should be implemented to protect them. The precautions needed will depend on the type and size of the premises being guarded of course, but common sense should prevail. Clearly the Guardians are most at risk when they are asleep.
One 'Guardian property' I've dealt with is a void Hostel (converted town house) used previously as a half way house awaiting redevolpment. The guardian has access to all areas of the property (all rooms are open) window escape is available from the majority of first floor rooms etc, and the level of risk to the Guardian is effectively similar to a householder in a single domestic dwelling, because no one else is living at the property, and it is essentially a residential setting.
However the property was already equipped with AFD and the usual raft of precautions, so no additional or temporary P&P measures were required. You could argue however that normal standalone detectors would have been suitable if suitable AFD wasn't already installed (so long as Guardian slept no higher than the first floor)
I'm also involved with Guardians protecting a factory / distribution centre. Their sleeping / living quarters are on the ground floor in an old office deliberately chosen as it has a final exit leading straight onto the car park. There are also opening windows large enough to be considered suitable for escape if the final exit wasn't available.
Early warning is provided courtesy of a series of wireless interlinked detectors protecting the primary escape route from their quarters and the living quarters themselves, the whole building does not need to be protected by AFD for their protection.
Hope this helps
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Guardians have typically been used in unused buildings as a cheaper solution to security guards to prevent squatters taking over the building. Removing squatters was previously a long drawn out process involving the courts due the fact of 'squatters rights'. These rights have now been removed and its my understanding that the police can now interveen - this will surely make guardians less widely used.
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Please note the provisions of the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 only create the offence of squatting in a residential building, so use of Guardians in former commercial premises is unlikely to diminish - in fact it may increase as a result of squatters needing to target non residential premises in future