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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => General Interest => Topic started by: Lee999 on August 03, 2005, 02:24:29 PM

Title: Rank markings
Post by: Lee999 on August 03, 2005, 02:24:29 PM: The Brigade i am with recently did away with rank markings.

Have any other Brigades done the same?
Title: Rank markings
Post by: Matt Akers on August 03, 2005, 06:29:35 PM: Do you mean rank markings on uniform and helmets?
Title: Rank markings
Post by: fireftrm on August 03, 2005, 06:48:44 PM: I would imagine on non-PPE as it is not meant to be used on any other than PPE now, Fire service circular on Role Insignia. Note these are for roles not ranks............

We did away with markings about 5 years ago, except on PPE (helmets)
Title: Rank markings
Post by: b217bravo on August 03, 2005, 09:13:18 PM: A silly question,probably, but how do you distinguish between different levels of management without rank/role markings on undress uniform?
What is so wrong about an identifiable heirchy? FRS are supposed to be uniformed & disciplined.
Can't imagine the police or forces doing away with rank markings, note that these organisations still refer to ranks & not roles.
Can anybody put forward an argument to convince me that the service is better served by replacing ranks with roles.
geoff
Title: Rank markings
Post by: Peter Wilkinson on August 03, 2005, 09:59:20 PM: Maybe it is a silly question.

I manage to recognise my company Chairman, and am able to successfully distinguish him from the Managing Director. Is it so different in a modern F&RS?
Title: Rank markings
Post by: dave bev on August 03, 2005, 10:20:53 PM: i cant help geoff sorry!

even with my involvement you would think i could be 'sold' but sorry - the thing is most people believe that ipds could only be delivered by introducing 'roles' - i believe that ipds could still have been introduced around the old system which clearly didnt work (guffaw, guffaw).

i do have a few other personal views but im not sure this is the place for them.

as for rank markings - havent we done that in a previous thread?

dave bev
Title: Rank markings
Post by: Chris Houston on August 03, 2005, 10:30:48 PM: A few discussion have covered this before (Search for "Rank Markings") using the [SEARCH] feature.

Comprehensive guidance was contained within the following thread:

http://www.fire.org.uk/punbb/upload/viewtopic.php?id=348
Title: Rank markings
Post by: fireftrm on August 04, 2005, 05:21:11 PM: My FRS is still here and managing quite well without rank markings/role insignia. Strangely we do not need some pidgeon c**p on our collars to be managers, just as Peter suggested. Maybe those who do are in the worng positions?
Title: Rank markings
Post by: messy on August 05, 2005, 10:20:42 AM: London's training officers have just ditched their white shirts and rank markings for maroon polo shirts with an embroidered LFB badge.

I have heard that there are some managers (ADOs also wear this 'Burger King' rig) who are getting a bit fed up with being called 'mate'!

Also, they look sh1te, especially on those more..ahem!.. fuller figures.

Is this modernisation????
Title: Rank markings
Post by: colin todd on August 05, 2005, 06:58:54 PM: If I do training for the mighty LFEPA, will I get a free maroon shirt?
Title: Rank markings
Post by: Paul on August 05, 2005, 09:08:52 PM: I'm afraid I'm a little old school and think that loosing rank markings is just the start of the rocky road to the fire service being run by 'managers'.

Oh now what have I said!!!
Title: Rank markings
Post by: fireftrm on August 06, 2005, 08:00:54 AM: The rocky road? Well get the suspension sorted because we are on it already. At least we have only brought in external managers and not consultants, so far. Out of interest just examine the 'Deputy Chief Fire Officer' of Cheshire, she was a solicitor with the County council. Now 'DCFO' she is pictured wearing the full regalia; so even using the old rank markings did nothing to stop an external manager coming straight in at a principal level with your service! Funny how this appointment, allowed by the replacement of previous 'through the ranks' Regs with to role, had someone appointed to a RANK and with the uniform to go with it! Personally I believe that there are plenty of good mamagers who could ebter the service at every level - but in a role, ranks have gone, so please play the game.
Title: Rank markings
Post by: dave bev on August 06, 2005, 12:19:16 PM: i wonder how many brigades are going to stick with the term 'commander' (as was previously expected when this work on 'roles' started way back in the 'nineties' - as opposed to using the modernised 'manager' term)? after all we have an incident command structure (within the ic system) - incidents need to be commanded not just managed!

dave bev
Title: Rank markings
Post by: colin todd on August 06, 2005, 06:02:11 PM: Firey, thats the first posting of yours ever that has got me excited. God , I love women in uniform. Perhaps Mr Smith, coming as he does from Cheshire, could get me an intro.
Title: Rank markings
Post by: fireftrm on August 06, 2005, 07:52:29 PM: Oh Colin, I am so pleased. Maybe we got off to a bad start, but your hapiness is really at my heart!
Title: Rank markings
Post by: colin todd on August 07, 2005, 12:48:37 PM: Stick to erotica, like the lady Dep in uniform, and leave fire safety to the experts, and we will get on fine I am sure.
Title: Rank markings
Post by: fireftrm on August 07, 2005, 05:06:23 PM: Ooh an expert! I like it, though not nearly as much as those still in the job.

Pert that is.