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FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Community Fire Safety => Topic started by: Andy Cole on August 26, 2005, 10:02:07 PM

Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: Andy Cole on August 26, 2005, 10:02:07 PM
I should almost certainly already know this but I can still hide under the 'new boy' tag! someone may well be able to give me an answer to this one
What is the best way to test a Smoke alarm when installing it (or at any other time for that matter!) by pressing the 'test' button are you not just checking the function of the battery?
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: Graeme on August 26, 2005, 10:11:15 PM
pressing the button checks the electronics,sounder and interconnection if relevant.
Some manufacturers say it's not strictly necessary to test with smoke.
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: colin todd on August 26, 2005, 11:32:55 PM
BS 5839-6 is quite clear on this point. if the system is installed by a professional installer (ie not the landlord or householder), on installation it has to be a functional test. use of the test button alone is not sufficient and you should not issue a cert unless you have tested the smoke alarms as per Part 6.
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: Graeme on August 26, 2005, 11:38:23 PM
i totally agree and i have always questioned how pushing a button can simulate smoke.
but some manufacturers deem it not necessary and the button is fine.

most home owners test the one near the kitchen on a daily basis by burning their dinner.
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: colin todd on August 26, 2005, 11:48:48 PM
..................most homeowners apart from Mrs Millar I'll warant.
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: Graeme on August 26, 2005, 11:49:53 PM
but of course.
can't burn a takeaway
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: Gel on August 27, 2005, 08:27:57 AM
Better a smoke cannister than lighting paper underneath, as some do.
However, be aware that over zealous spraying can contaminate the sensing chamber.
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: colin todd on August 27, 2005, 02:24:24 PM
I dont think that lighting paper was quite what we had in mind.
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: Andy Cole on August 27, 2005, 08:00:10 PM
Suppose we could just set light to the property and wait to see if the alarm goes off!?!
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: Graeme on August 28, 2005, 08:58:46 AM
just read in the Sunday paper thet nearly 4,000 battery operated smoke alarms were faulty in 10,000 home fires last year.
More than 1 million homes in deprived areas will now get free smoke alarms.

The smoke alarms in these deprived areas i have been into are not faulty but missing.The first thing the tennant does is to remove the detector so he and his mates don't set it off when they are passing the bong around the room.

I have also replaced loads of missing detectors in HMO's because the tennant has told me,when it went off  he hit it with a golf club because he could not reach up to the hush button.

In house holds i have seen the battery removed and never replaced when the alarm started giving the intermittent bleeps to indicate low battery.
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: ian gough on August 28, 2005, 09:38:03 AM
What paper was that Graham?
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: ian gough on August 28, 2005, 09:38:50 AM
Apologies - Graeme
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: colin todd on August 28, 2005, 02:39:55 PM
Bong????????????????????????????????????
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: ian gough on August 28, 2005, 05:15:49 PM
It must be the 'dinner bong' Colin...
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: colin todd on August 28, 2005, 05:24:04 PM
Ah yes in the big Scottish castle wot graeme lives in, to be rung by his butler possibly. That would be it.
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: Graeme on August 28, 2005, 09:26:52 PM
coz i down with tha street in ma hood,i will tell y'all what a bong is.

It is a make shift device used for smoking cannabis.So i am told.
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: colin todd on August 28, 2005, 09:52:51 PM
Oh well you live and learn.
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: Andy Cole on October 07, 2005, 07:44:32 PM
Some of you may be interested to know that we have now been given cool burn smoke matches to use on Home Fire Safety Visits when fitting new Alarms or to test exsisting ones!
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: Andy Cole on October 07, 2005, 07:45:24 PM
Quote from: Graeme Millar
coz i down with tha street in ma hood,i will tell y'all what a bong is.

It is a make shift device used for smoking cannabis.So i am told.



Why not ask the students in the other forum!
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: Graeme on October 07, 2005, 09:31:33 PM
Quote from: Andy Cole
Some of you may be interested to know that we have now been given cool burn smoke matches to use on Home Fire Safety Visits when fitting new Alarms or to test exsisting ones!

Better off using Solo smoke in a can.
does cool burn involve a naked flame?
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: Graeme on October 07, 2005, 09:31:48 PM
Quote from: Andy Cole
Quote from: Graeme Millar
coz i down with tha street in ma hood,i will tell y'all what a bong is.

It is a make shift device used for smoking cannabis.So i am told.



Why not ask the students in the other forum!

good point
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: Andy Cole on October 08, 2005, 09:25:10 PM
no naked flame involved, I would imagine (although I've never used it!) it is a similar product to smoke in a can.
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: Brian Downes on February 20, 2006, 04:53:56 PM
Is a 'Fire Authority' that installs free single point smoke alarms as part of home fire safety surveys (to form LD3 Grade F system) considered a professional installer then?
A professional installer is required by clause 23.4 to test the sensors using simulated smoke, and to issue a certificate of compliance as alluded to earlier in the thread?
Have any other members working with Local Authority Fire Brigades in UK considered this issue?
The authority I work for just pop the detectors up and push the test button at the moment;  but we are wondering if we may not be complying with the BS?
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: Graeme on February 20, 2006, 05:07:43 PM
At commissioning stage you need to test with simulated smoke or aerosol to BS.
The test button is intended for the end users weekly tests.
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: Brian Downes on February 21, 2006, 08:47:48 AM
Graeme,
             Thanks for your reply, do you issue a certificate of compliance as well?
 I assume from your answer that your opinion is that a Local Authority FB is a professional installer?

Brian
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: Graeme on February 21, 2006, 11:56:09 AM
Brian

to BS a design,installation and commissioning certificates are required from a professional installer.

could'nt say with the FB. They are installing the detectors for free so technically are not getting paid for it.
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: Brian Downes on February 22, 2006, 10:15:22 AM
Graeme,
             As you suggest,  it all hangs on the definition of 'professional installer'. My dictionary seems to define it as 'receiving payment', and or 'having expertise'.
I think my colleagues who deal with this activity will let sleeping dogs lie.
The issue could have serious implications for Fire Brigades community safety activities if it did come to the fore though.
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: Graeme on February 22, 2006, 12:40:30 PM
Brain

Exactly what i was trying to say but was not sure how to word it. Non professional-as in they are not receiving payment from the end user,not as in their ability.
so i can't see it applying to them.
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: wee brian on February 22, 2006, 02:40:21 PM
I wouldn't want to try that one with a judge
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: Graeme on February 22, 2006, 05:50:29 PM
Especially Judge Judy
she takes no prisoners.
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: fireengineer on May 22, 2007, 12:40:07 AM
Hi all, I am a Fire Alarm engineer, interesting thread. All new detectors must be tested with smoke or aerosol smoke. Smoke matches are good but do produce alot of smoke in confined spaces like a hallway, serious ventilation to clear the detector will be needed, post test. The primary use for these matches in my line of work is in testing aspirating systems, these will not activate with the canned stuff and so real smoke is required. The canned smoke it ideal but costs about 9 quid a can, however one squirt is all thats needed so a can should test hundreds of devices. If you are stuck, steam will do it as will any aerosol that produces a cloud, but as I say you would have to be really stuck to resort to those methods.
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: Mr. P on May 22, 2007, 07:57:32 AM
Trouble is with some some aerosols, a film of sticks on the important bits rendering the det less able or giving future faults.
Title: Smoke alarms
Post by: bolt on June 16, 2007, 08:21:05 PM
Thats true if you over do it you cover the head in oily stuff and ruins it.  The right way is to use a difuser cap system and pole from someone like noclimb. In the old days some cigarette smoke blown on the head done the trick if you was desparate but smoking 300 ciggies a day testing a big system is not good and can't get away with it anymore in todays anti smoking climate.:)

Come to mention it how many bother testing heat alarms? Sometimes testing heats is quite difficult even with the correct hot air gun. I seen many with burnt plastic where some one tried testing them with a lighter. LOL Of course there are many occasions where you cant plug in the heat gun anyway as there is simply no mains power about in which case one needs to take the heat head out and test it elsewhere and pop it back after.