FireNet Community
FIRE SERVICE AND GENERAL FIRE SAFETY TOPICS => Operational => Topic started by: Cut Fire Service Pay on February 25, 2006, 05:02:01 PM
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I would be interested on serving Ffs opinions on whether there is any real point or benefit to all of the shift changes that we are now seeing spreading through the fire service. I read that Nottinghamshire are proposing six eight hour shifts and only two days off! And thats supposed to be family friendly! I know that there are similar ideas knocking around.
Let me also say Im happy with my pay & conditions but unhappy with the whole 'rank to role nonsense' & see no point whatsoever to it but i'm putting up with it. I personaly like the current 2/2/4 & day crewing shifts as it gives me a good break from the fire service after what can be a busy tour of duty & its family friendly. O and most of us in busy stations know that you don't go to work for a good nights sleep far from it! We are lucky if we get a couple of hours!
At a time when morale is rock bottom in the fire service, is this realy the way forward?
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I would be interested on serving Ffs opinions on whether there is any real point or benefit to all of the shift changes that we are now seeing spreading through the fire service. I read that Nottinghamshire are proposing six eight hour shifts and only two days off!
Because it will then be easier to reduce cover from 00:01 to 08:00.
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I'm of the opinion, that the goverment told the fire service to look at the shift systems (post strike to qualify for part 2 of the pay rise) to see if there was a better one available - we all know there is no better system than the 2-2-4. On from this brigades looked at systems that could also accomodate reducing night time cover, because we go to less calls at night irrispective that most serious property fires where people die are in the small hours.
I have worked a day crewed system and I am now working the 2-2-4 and I don't think apart from at 24 on 72 off which the MOD boys work there is a much better system.
I also think that the government and fire service senior management has a real stigma about us having beds on fire stations. A shorter working shift would alleviate this problem.
I am thankful that my brigade has not jumped in with two feet and changed our system at present although removal of beds is on the cards with a station rebuild project that has no dormitory.
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I was told by a friend who works for Devon that they are going to introduce 12 or 8 hour shifts and downgrade alot of stations at night. To do this they are selling the 'salary' based retained duty system to their retained Ffs. The RFU has blindly agreed without seeing any detail but the FBU are opposed.
Once they have enough retained Ffs on the 'salary' then they can use them to cover at WT/Retained stations at night and loose the WT Ffs without having to pay the extra 'turnout' & 'attendence' fees for the extra shouts the retained will pick up as a result. The sad thing is that alot of retained Ffs are going for it! The mangement must be laughing their heads off. (all the way to the bank)
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Interestingly enough Ladies and Gents, Greater Manchester have just changed to a 5-watch system (Red, White, Blue, Green & AMBER); we keep the 2-2-4 system of 9 hour days & 15 hour nights and have removed all the beds from all 41 Stations!!!
The 5-watch system is rather complicated to say the least; basically we do 7 complete turns of 2-2-4 duty & follow this up with 18 days leave! But, and it's a rather big but (no pun intended), we can be called in on some of the 18 day leave period!
It seems to work OK; some like it & some don't (human nature), but it just goes to show - you don't need to be on 8 hour shifts to lose the beds!
Be afraid; be very afraid!!!
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Spin,
Does this mean that you have to take your annual (and other) leave at the brigade's convenience?
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Thats correct Big A;
All of our Annual Leave is included in the 18 day "breaks" between shifts, with the additional bonus that one watch does not get any leave whatsoever over the six week School holidays.
Family friendly - as long as the family doesn't include kids!
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It sounds like 'family -friendly' is another term that has been redefined ib Blair's Brave New World.
Fortunately our brigade has not gone too far down that road although a change to 12 hour shifts is proposed. The rationale behind this, apparently, is to avoid having 'change of watch' at peak (bombing) periods.
Politicians of all hues have never liked the fact that we can sleep whilst being paid. The only problem is that they cannot invent any task that will occupy the troops from 0001 - 0007 hrs.
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Follow us boys we've had the lot.....2 2 4 ok so far 7am-6pm --6pm-7am getting worse, no beds even worse,every six weeks we do either 6 earlys or lates 8am-4pm or 4pm -midnight getting the message? Moral lower than the lowest,60 watches ruined guys up top aint got a clue, but we keep on fighting.
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West Mids by the way in case you did nt know......
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For the 5 crew system, I've heard it done using 2/2/4 and weeks 9 & 10 are then used to bolster busy periods i.e. during the day. Leave is then left alone to take as usual i.e. 1 or 2 people per shift depending on your numbers. Sounded ok. Another was based on 2/2/4 but an extra shift for the weekend i.e. Fri, Sat, Sun day/ Mon, Tue night against Wed, Thu day / Fri, Sat, Sun night. The rest was 2/2/4 giving 2 weekends working, and 2 x 5 day weekends off. I wouldn't have minded that one.
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bigfoot - any chance you can elaborate on the shift system you have described for West Midlands??
only reason I ask is that Im due to commence my training 9th June for West Midlands.
Do you mean that you work 2 2 4 for six weeks, after that then do the 6 earlies or lates. Then commence the 2 2 4 again until 6 weeks time do another 6 earlies or lates??
Many Thanks
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It sounds like 'family -friendly' is another term that has been redefined ib Blair's Brave New World.
Fortunately our brigade has not gone too far down that road although a change to 12 hour shifts is proposed. The rationale behind this, apparently, is to avoid having 'change of watch' at peak (bombing) periods.
Politicians of all hues have never liked the fact that we can sleep whilst being paid. The only problem is that they cannot invent any task that will occupy the troops from 0001 - 0007 hrs.
Why are politicians allowed to sleep in the house during debates and get paid? Is it because they have usually dined well?
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Follow us boys we've had the lot.....2 2 4 ok so far 7am-6pm --6pm-7am getting worse, no beds even worse,every six weeks we do either 6 earlys or lates 8am-4pm or 4pm -midnight getting the message? Moral lower than the lowest,60 watches ruined guys up top aint got a clue, but we keep on fighting.
bigfoot - any chance you can elaborate on the shift system you have described for West Midlands??
only reason I ask is that Im due to commence my training 9th June for West Midlands.
Do you mean that you work 2 2 4 for six weeks, after that then do the 6 earlies or lates. Then commence the 2 2 4 again until 6 weeks time do another 6 earlies or lates??
Many Thanks
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Follow us boys we've had the lot.....2 2 4 ok so far 7am-6pm --6pm-7am getting worse, no beds even worse,every six weeks we do either 6 earlys or lates 8am-4pm or 4pm -midnight getting the message? Moral lower than the lowest,60 watches ruined guys up top aint got a clue, but we keep on fighting.
bigfoot - any chance you can elaborate on the shift system you have described for West Midlands??
only reason I ask is that Im due to commence my training 9th June for West Midlands.
Do you mean that you work 2 2 4 for six weeks, after that then do the 6 earlies or lates. Then commence the 2 2 4 again until 6 weeks time do another 6 earlies or lates??
Many Thanks
rp
i have a family member just joined west mids (Nov 07) and they do 2 2 4 Days 0800-1800 nights 1800-0800 no beds but easy chairs to sit in at night. then every 8 weeks he does what is called an 'Oscar' shift and that is at another station than his home station with lots of other members of different watches and these 'Oscar' shifts are 4 twelve hour days of 1100-1100......bottom line different but he loves the job and is on a busy station so getting lots of experiance. Good luck for June
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Brilliant.
Thanks very much for the shift pattern. To me that shift pattern sounds perfect for me. Awesome news - cant wait.
Thanks again.
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RP,
Don't be too concerned about some of the negative comments you hear on the site. As long as the shifts don't cause any problems for you regarding childcare etc. I don't think you will have any problem with them. What you have to appreciate is that for those of us that worked under the old 2 2 4 system, whereby you could sleep of a night and which was perceived by the majority to be a fantastic system, any change will be and has been for the worse. It is still a fantastic career and I'm sure you will love every minute of it.
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Yeah no problem,
Im not concerned to be honest, I understand there are a lot of old timers that will have been through a lot during their time with the fire service. At the end of the day this is the only career I want - its not about what other people think as long I myself am happy. The job and the shift pattern is just perfect for myself.
Cant wait to get started - my first day as a trainee fire fighter next Monday. Not long now.