FireNet Community
FIRE SAFETY => Fire Alarm Systems => Topic started by: Fire Monkey on August 01, 2017, 08:59:23 AM
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I can across a interesting article about a new patent from a well known company that I think are big in fruit distribution. It concerns using mobile and tablet devises as smoke detectors (presumably it is somehow integrated as hardware). These devises could talk and other near by devises (fixed smoke detectors/sprinklers/dampers/shutters/doors) and even contact the fire service. Obviously this would be a secondary back up device as its battery powered and the devices could be covered up and left in bags etc).
Any thought and how these could be used in the future - the internet of things (every thing is connected to every thing).
An apple a day could really keep the doctor away.......
Monkey.
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Fantastic. We should embrace as much technology as we can. The security industry does its a shame the fire industry isn't as progressive.
Obviously any new product has to prove itself but bring on the revolution.
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I'm waiting for the first family to die after their smoke detectors get hacked and their internet-connected tumble dryer is turned on overnight.
Or for a fire service control system to go into panic mode after getting 10,000 calls a minute from a denial of service style attack.
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Good points Owain.
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I'm waiting for the first family to die after their smoke detectors get hacked and their internet-connected tumble dryer is turned on overnight.
Or for a fire service control system to go into panic mode after getting 10,000 calls a minute from a denial of service style attack.
We don't have to wait for people to have smoke detectors not working.
The fruit company are excellent at encryption. What you state is a risk however you need to understand the level of that risk. For example you can stop a nest thermostat talking back to the nest server but you need physical access. So what you're mentioning is someone entering a premises taking the device apart (at which point there is a warning) jail breaking it (not easy) and repowering it (at which point the user would no longer be connected and notified) then also jail breaking a tumble dryer. Plus it would be hard to make it command anything else to actuate as most have ARP spoofing detection software installed. They can't be fooled, they talk a certain language.
The internet of things is based on if that then then.
If power disconnected then alert me
If tumble drier exceed temp then turn off
If time is between 8pm and 7am do not turn on tumble drier.
That is not based in the physical device so what you're suggesting is a lot of work just to commit a crime.
I can't wait for better systems to come out that don't rely on old metal boxes and bits of wire poking around a building with little fail safe. (lighting an led and buzzing that scary metal box near the cupboard doesn't work)
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I am rapidly becoming convinced in past weeks that during the night aliens have transported me to the planet Zanussi and that planet earth has generally been abandoned. I now understand. It has happened and, as I read it,the population of this new planet are fruit cakes? Is this the simultaneous evacuation everyone is talking about. I so wish that I had stayed put on planet earth. I liked it there, particularly the part in Scotland.
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I shall remain sceptical in general, and particularly cautious about having safety systems connected to the internet, particularly domestic ones.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-28582479
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They used people from cyber security companies for quotes, do you think they would say that there is no problem with them or do you think they would use the opportunity to promote the risks and therefore drive business their way?
Didn't people used to think that driving in an automobile over Xmph would kill a human? I appreciate your skepticism it will always be evident in people as the worlds technology expands but I look forward to the world changing.
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I am rapidly becoming convinced in past weeks that during the night aliens have transported me to the planet Zanussi and that planet earth has generally been abandoned. I now understand. It has happened and, as I read it,the population of this new planet are fruit cakes? Is this the simultaneous evacuation everyone is talking about. I so wish that I had stayed put on planet earth. I liked it there, particularly the part in Scotland.
Does this mean your have retired to a foreign clim Dot and spend you deck chair days picking dried raisins out of your belly button.
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Almost, no , on reflection, I think I have moved into a parallel universe, in which, just as quantum physics demands symmetry in matter and anti matter, the people in my old universe who talked sense now talk anti sense. Its all around me. So called fire experts appearing from goodness knows where who keep saying," I don't understand why the Government does/does not.......", when they should really put a full stop after the word understand.
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Almost, no , on reflection, I think I have moved into a parallel universe, in which, just as quantum physics demands symmetry in matter and anti matter, the people in my old universe who talked sense now talk anti sense. Its all around me. So called fire experts appearing from goodness knows where who keep saying," I don't understand why the Government does/does not.......", when they should really put a full stop after the word understand.
Don't forget that when you mix matter with anti-matter you have nothing. Wonder is that where FS is?
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I'm not averse to change. I quite like being able to email pictures without having to uuencode them first.
Just not sure about other people emailing my smoke detectors or how I update the antivirus on them.
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I'm not averse to change. I quite like being able to email pictures without having to uuencode them first.
Just not sure about other people emailing my smoke detectors or how I update the antivirus on them.
Good to hear, the user case needs to be improved but the scope this technology has is very exciting. Light wakes children up better than a higher frequency smoke detector, so why not link your smoke detector to your lights? Its easy to do.
FWIW these devices are controlled by the cloud so no user interaction needed in terms of viruses.
I love this sort of technology, my lights are all controlled by my phone, as is my heating and my stereo and my security camera.
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Obviously, we can?t fight the tide of progress. Even if doing so will stave off the final destruction of mankind (Elon Musk prophesy, and he makes a living from A.I.) But what we can?t do is rush head long into new, untried or tested technologies, just because they are exciting. Wireless technologies are not yet sufficiently reliable. Ask yourself how often your broad band connection or your wireless hub drop out or freeze. How often does your battery go flat or you phone need to be restarted. How many aps sort of work, but not particularly well?
There may be some minor benefits to controlling lighting and heating systems remotely from your phone, especially if you want to P off the people you live while your out and about, but what possible benefit is there in a smart kettle, toaster of coffee percolator, other than proving to the world what a complete nob you are. I?d also question the benefit of being able to watch someone burgle your house in the UK while sipping a G&T next to your hotel pool in Greece. This technology is fine for none critical matters, and may, in due course become sufficiently reliable for life safety applications. But not at the moment.
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If you truly are on the planet Zanusi Colin, a word of advice. Don?t bang on about Scotland quite so much. It?ll will only confuse the Zanusians, what with you being a permanent resident of England, and they will eventually loose patience and ship you back, probably to England as that is your home, by which time the management buy out bid for the asylum will have been completed by the inmates and you won?t evun haf to be abul to spell Expurt in order to be one.
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I'm not averse to change. I quite like being able to email pictures without having to uuencode them first.
Just not sure about other people emailing my smoke detectors or how I update the antivirus on them.
Good to hear, the user case needs to be improved but the scope this technology has is very exciting. Light wakes children up better than a higher frequency smoke detector, so why not link your smoke detector to your lights? Its easy to do.
FWIW these devices are controlled by the cloud so no user interaction needed in terms of viruses.
I love this sort of technology, my lights are all controlled by my phone, as is my heating and my stereo and my security camera.
Nerd!
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haha
Nerd is kool these days so i'l take that 8)
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Light wakes children up better than a higher frequency smoke detector, so why not link your smoke detector to your lights? Its easy to do.
Because I don't have children? I do have two automatic emergency lights though for when the mains electricity fails.
FWIW these devices are controlled by the cloud so no user interaction needed in terms of viruses.
Exactly, they can catch viruses with no user interaction needed :-)
I love this sort of technology, my lights are all controlled by my phone, as is my heating and my stereo and my security camera.
Dialling 222 on the house phones rings 'emergency' bells and dialling 333 connects to voice paging.
A slightly more advanced (?) form of system:
http://www.dfrtelecoms.org.uk/mc001.htm
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Servers are generally kept in numerous locations in numerous countries so viruses can't really effect a static server.
Have you read how the nest smoke and co detector works?
"It's based on standard photoelectric tech that sees smoke by shining beams through a "smoke chamber" and detecting how much light gets scattered by airborne particles within. Traditional photoelectric detectors use infrared light with a wavelength above 700nm?and so does the Protect. This works well for detecting large smoke particles of 250nm, but burning items like pine wood or newspaper produce smaller particles of only 50nm.
So the Nest Protect adds an additional blue LED, which shines light at around 400nm. As a Nest whitepaper puts it, "When smoke particles are very small, shorter wavelengths of light, like blue, scatter light many times more efficiently than longer wavelengths like infrared."
Nest calls this system a "Split Spectrum Sensor" and says that the algorithm used to tune it was built from "several hundred data sets, covering a wide range of fire types, including smouldering fires, flaming fires, and nuisance situations."
"Thanks to its built-in humidity sensor, the Protect had an easy time with the steam; it didn't trigger once. (Other photoelectric combos triggered between 30 and 80 percent of the time.) Likewise, the burnt toast tripped ionisation-based detectors 80 percent of the time; the Protect didn't alarm once. (The boiling and frying hamburger tests tripped all detectors a significant percentage of the time, including the Protect.)"
So faster detection and vastly better at false alarms yet because it has one feature where it can be linked to a phone you don't trust it?
Google own nest, how many times have googles servers been taken down by attacks?
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Hi,
Just heard of a new devise that is a voice controlled personal assistant (you know like that South American based river management company or that firm that produces protective eye wear for deputy swimmers only - in fact I think their software is installed in the device) that is designed to be installed hard wired on a ceiling and is a 'smart' smoke and CO2 detector but also responds to voice commands and can play your music, tell you the weather at Fort William and control the smart devices in you home.
Such a device could have a practical application in that instead of a beeping smoke detector sleeping young children could be woken up a soothing female voice that is more likely to rise them. Also it might encourage some to actually fit a smoke detector. My initial concern though is coverage - some may think that one devise, fitted in the room they are mostly likely to give voice commands, is enough coverage for their property - this means this unit may not end up being installed in the room with the higher risk such as a kitchen and would only provide coverage one floor. I would trust the installation instructions would give suitable installation instructions and not locate the device right next to a wall or beam.
What are the other implications or considerations?
FM