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51
Technical Advice / Re: fire service intervention in evacuation of a premises
« Last post by Messy on June 28, 2023, 08:23:21 PM »
COLIN you old dinosaur!!! ::). 'Firemen'??????????  I am disappointed in you with your gender specific language - but I am not surprised!

The LFB will employ anyone with a pulse now and not as fussy as they were in my day.  They are just a bit fussy about which contractors they retain

I identify as largely retired - but keep my hand in from time to time as I am frightened about getting old, sitting around all day trying to keep my paranoia under control. However, I did smile when I saw your daft photo - but I am not going to admit that to you  ;)

Sadly Oddjob died in 1982, but if he had made it to my place he may have struggled with the stairs at 102 years old as I am decorating my downstairs loo

52
Fire Alarm Systems / Re: Conventional system or mixed system?
« Last post by stewbow68 on June 27, 2023, 06:55:34 AM »
Hi
Many thanks for your in depth reply, it is very useful.
once again
thanks
53
Fire Alarm Systems / Re: Conventional system or mixed system?
« Last post by AnthonyB on June 25, 2023, 08:58:38 PM »
Whilst I've normally seen it with addressable systems and suitable C&E or mix of addressable with conventional spurs (e.g. C-tec hush button and their current Hush-Pro) it's not unheard of to have a single system rather than two mixed.

The mixed system spec is only a suggested minimum for simultaneous evacuation and not a rigid specification. Depending on the risks covered there may be need for coverage of a common system beyond a flat hallway, such as external fire spread issues, heritage age buildings where there are voids and poor ceilings that could spread fire before a hallway heat would trigger, etc.

The mixed system concept is to provide early sitewide warning before compartment of origin breaches without undue false alarm risk leading to lack of confidence in the alarm and possible interference with it, the local system for occupier of origin flat life safety only disrupting the one flat if they burn the toast/leave the bathroom door open etc....

The set up you describe would satisfy communal early warning and local early warning in one as you have common detection before breakout from the flat AND local smoke detection and warning in internal escape routes (& more)for the early warning in the flat of origin so no real need to change it or add other bits from that point of view. It's only vulnerability is the false alarm risk and knock on effects from that which as it's not causing any issues isn't a major issue in the short term. Long term once the conventional kit was end of life I'd consider upgrading to addressable to be able to program out the worst of the false alarm risks but that's about it.

Is it providing a lesser level of protection than that in the 'usual' set up, is it not in line with the appropriate evac strategy and is that difference in protection putting relevant persons in danger of serious injury or death? If you are saying no to these questions then it's not 'wrong' just a different way of achieving the right precautions. I'd still advise that this rationale for accepting it is robustly explained in documentation relating to the fire safety arrangements though due to the various changes in legislation putting you very much on the back foot if you deviate from guidance.
54
Fire Alarm Systems / Conventional system or mixed system?
« Last post by stewbow68 on June 25, 2023, 07:55:00 AM »
Hi Everybody
In a HMO Building with a communal area and flats there is a conventional 4 zone panel with detection throughout the communal area and in the hallways, kitchen and bedrooms of each of the apartments.
A fire risk assessment has concluded that this is the wrong system and that it should have a mixed system.
My way of thinking is that the existing system has more coverage and as there are no false alarm problems, it trumps the mixed system.

Also the minimum requirements in a rented flat asks for A Smoke Alarm in the Circulation Areas, ie the hallway. If there is an existing Part 1 System in place with a Smoke Detector already in the hallway linked to the main system, then am I right in thinking that there is no need for an additional Part 6 LD3 Smoke Alarm in the same hallway?

many thanks
stew
55
Technical Advice / Guidance on safe investigation of fire alarm signals
« Last post by colin todd on June 25, 2023, 12:36:15 AM »
New guidance we (FIA) have produced for Scotland to support their new UFAS policy from 1 July 2023

https://bit.ly/3Nv5Nvs
56
Technical Advice / Re: fire service intervention in evacuation of a premises
« Last post by colin todd on June 25, 2023, 12:31:40 AM »
Davey, I thought you were retiring, or that my instructions to Oddjob had been fulfilled?
57
Technical Advice / Re: emergency lighting
« Last post by AnthonyB on June 23, 2023, 07:34:04 PM »
No, as that's not the definition of changing room nor the one for the recommendation (multiple not one) and in any case they would have borrowed light as bedrooms (usually) have windows.

You could argue the case for the en-suite toilet being covered as these are for disabled use.

ADB is still quite relaxed on EL provision (especially compared to BS5266) and doesn't indicate it here either.

Just because you don't have to have it doesn't mean you can't of course, particularly if you can demonstrate a distinct positive advantage from it.
58
Technical Advice / emergency lighting
« Last post by bevfs on June 23, 2023, 10:22:21 AM »
Morning all,
BS5266
5.2.8.5 Toilet facilities and changing rooms
Facilities for use by disabled people, and/or any multiple closet facilities without
borrowed light, should have emergency illumination from at least one
luminaire.

(changing rooms)Could it be argued that a bedroom (residential care)is the area used for changing, and should be provided with a form of em lighting.

Your thoughts?
59
Technical Advice / Re: Smoke vents in separate part of corridor
« Last post by mosh on June 21, 2023, 05:22:11 PM »
Clarification for the last post - the second corridor is actually about 6m long. So the combined corridor is approx 13.5m long.
60
Technical Advice / Smoke vents in separate part of corridor
« Last post by mosh on June 21, 2023, 05:17:09 PM »
I have just seen an office block that is in the process of being renovated to residential flats.
The flats are within lobbied corridors, with maximum travel distance to the stairway of approx 11m. The corridor is subdivided with a fire door, so that there is a maxium of about 7.5m to the first door (and all the flats are within this part) and then an additional small corridor (approx 3.5m) leading to the (single) stairway. The AOV (natural smoke shaft) is located within this second corridor.
The question is, does it make sense to have the smoke shaft in the second-half of the corridor - so there is no smoke control in the residential part of the corridor, and will only vent smoke if the mid-corridor door is open?
Would it make more sense to remove the mid-corridor door so that the smoke has means of dispersing - but would mean that the travel distance now is 11m to a protected escape route?

Thanks
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