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71
Fire Risk Assessments / Re: External escapes
« Last post by Seetek on May 04, 2023, 12:23:26 AM »
Thanks Anthony, for coming back to me. I am aware of all the guidance back to the 'blue' book and 'red' book etc. Today with all the guidance available, I am at a loss how this has not been picked up. There are 4 such externals on my client's building and more than 10 such buildings on the site hence my reach out on here. I have asked then client to try and source the original strategy.
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Fire Risk Assessments / Re: External escapes
« Last post by AnthonyB on May 03, 2023, 09:11:25 PM »
It's been listed in fire safety guidance back since fire certificate days - but unfortunately lots of stuff slips through the net, both back then and now.
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Fire Risk Assessments / Re: External escapes
« Last post by Seetek on May 03, 2023, 09:38:50 AM »
OK as I received a resounding silence to my post, I guess I never worded it in a great manner. I was hoping someone might have seen a scenario where an external stair is as described. The facade is curtain-wall glazing - non-FR. Thoughts?
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Fire Risk Assessments / External escapes
« Last post by Seetek on April 29, 2023, 08:30:09 PM »
I am trying to locate the specific guidance for situations where external staircases are situated approximately 1.8m away from the building. The facades and exit doors are unprotected. Occupants at each level have to pass along a (1.8m) link section between exit door and stair. Which guidance allows this scenario? I can't see it in any CLG FRA guides, BS9999 or AD B. The guidance assumes the stair is attached directly to the building with the entire stair requiring protection below it. (This stair is also >9m with no weather protection.) In a fire occupants may need to travel along these unprotected links within the smoke plume. It is debatable whether the stair at 1.8m away from the building would be safe from smoke also with no protection to the facade. Any thoughts?
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Guides and Legislation Links / Re: LABC fire shutter guidance
« Last post by wee brian on April 25, 2023, 03:15:39 PM »
I'm surprised that it isn't here (maybe disappointed)

https://buildingcontrolalliance.org/guidance-notes/
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Technical Advice / Re: fire service intervention in evacuation of a premises
« Last post by Dinnertime Dave on April 22, 2023, 07:34:49 PM »
I am a little confused as to your point. You are comparing two different types of premises.

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Technical Advice / Re: fire service intervention in evacuation of a premises
« Last post by AnthonyB on April 21, 2023, 08:17:44 PM »
The DCLG guides are being rewritten by the same people that wrote the specialised housing guidance (the first three are out) so I'd wait and see what the new ones say.

Resi Care and Specialised Housing are different types of premises with differing strategies too.
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Technical Advice / fire service intervention in evacuation of a premises
« Last post by bevfs on April 21, 2023, 12:06:42 PM »
Hi All,

Fire safety in specialized housing guide
92.4 In sheltered and extra care housing schemes, there "will be reliance ultimately on rescue by the fire and rescue service"in the event that residents cannot escape by themselves.
against
DCLG Residential Care Premises
p30
Emergency evacuation of persons with mobility impairment
The means of escape you provide must be suitable for the evacuation of everyone
likely to be in your premises. This may require additional planning and allocation
of staff roles ? with appropriate training. Provisions for the emergency evacuation
of disabled persons may include:
? stairways;
? evacuation lifts;
? firefighting lifts;
? horizontal evacuation;
? refuges; and
? ramps.
Use of these facilities will need to be linked to effective management arrangements
as part of your emergency plan. The plan "should not rely on fire and rescue service"
involvement for it to be effective.

What are the thoughts on the differing guidance given on reliance of fire service for evacuation of the premises?
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Fire Safety / Re: Escape via an adjacent room
« Last post by Messy on April 16, 2023, 03:42:28 PM »
Assuming there are two escape routes, is there a risk of a fire compromising this alternative route and the primary MoE simultaneously and without being detected?

Would it be unsafe (by the numbers using that alternative route) for them to turn around if the exit wasnt available?


I had a huge debate about this in the past when an Inspecting Officer. A landmark basement restaurant in a basement in London had a very large primary exit - via the front entrance - and an alternative along a corridor to the rear. After a renovation, a wall in the corridor which separated it from the main kitchen was removed to create a small 1.5m metre high wall between the escape corridor and the kitchen and completely open above.

My view was there was no problem. the route via the kitchen corridor was unchanged, but was no longer a protected route. The travel distances didnt require it and in any case, it was not possible (other than arson) to have a kitchen fire and a fire on the restaurant floor simultaneously. Many of my peers disagreed - especially the more senior ones who had cut their teeth on fire certification

Luckily I won that battle as my boss was switched on

 
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Fire Safety / Escape via an adjacent room
« Last post by lyledunn on April 16, 2023, 10:16:15 AM »
As an alternative MOE from social club premises, occupants exit via a set of doors which are fitted with push bars into a large second room which is ancillary to the club. An exit to the outside is quickly available in the adjacent room.
If a fire was detected at a late stage in the adjacent room, which is rarely used and accessed from a remote external location, escapees might be moving toward the fire.
I know it?s a simple question and perhaps vision panels might assist, but I see the arrangement in many club venues which never seem to be questioned.
Just something uncomfortable about it!?
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