Risk rating currency

[steve walker]

What does the forum think about the "currency" of risk ratings? How long are they valid for?

There are some buildings where the fire safety is intrinsically less robust than others; for example,  ones with single staircase escape. And some uses will attract a higher rating. However we would all probably agree  that  "management" is the single most important factor.

An IO rates a building then the occupier changes; so much for the risk rating. To be practical, there needs to be some workable system but ratings that incur reinspection in, for example, 10 years give a false sense of security.

Perhaps the management part of the rating should be ignored for ratings over 5 years and the reinspection period based on use and basic physical configuration.

[jokar]

Frs and IO's need not worry.  The Government has given the responsibility to the RP, whoever that may be.  The inspection process is just a check up.  You can go for years without a Police officer thinkng about your vehicle and you are much more likely to have an accident in that.  Frs are now an enforcer, the fire police, not fire safety specilaists.  Fo now and the future the fate of the premises and the occupants goes with the responsibilty and accountabilty of the RP.

[Mike Buckley]

The blind leading the blind?

[terry martin]

i would say the validity or 'currency' of risk ratings ends as soon as you leave the premises. the management that you have audited the premises with could cease the next day, or could be there for 20-30 years.

but i do agree the frequency of inspections is a real concern.

personnally i think that the audit should be done each time the premises has a new occupier (RP) as well as periodically if necessary, It is possible i'm sure, for us to be informed by the local council whenever a premises has a new occupier. that way a premises can be audited on the strength of the 'current' RP and not the guy who was in charge of some other company 5 years ago.

not sure how workable that would be? would be interesting to find out.

[Mr. P]

As good as the MOT then. Only for the moment it gets signed!

[jokar]

That is the same for any FRA though.  It is only as good as the snapshot in time that it covers.  It is down to the management to ensure that it works continually, hence responsibility and accountability for the RP in the RR(FS)O.

[steve walker]

Jokar,

I am thinking of the assessment by the fire and rescue authority of the risk rating of the premises not the fire risk assessment. This risk rating determines how often the premises will be reinspected.

Since the fire and rescue authority (FRA - very confusing) have limited resources they have to target "high risk" premises. When premises are inspected this is decided.

Edit - I see this thread (premises audits and reinspections) is being discussed under "Article 15 of RRO".

[jokar]

Yes, I realise that, the thread took us on to MOT and an FRA is exactlty that worthwhile on the day and then down to the managers.  The risk calculator will give a re-inspection date up to 72 months dependent on the FSEC category and the compliance or not of the managers of the premises.  It is the responsibilty of the RP no one else.  An inspection as an MOT or an FRA is a snapshot in time and needs managing after the event.  Article 34 changes the Onus of responsibilty to ALARP and on the RP so let them get on with it.  If FRS Officers interfere in the process it will be as much of a mess as the FPA and WFPL.

[CivvyFSO]

I don't think it is as black and white as that. As an IO if I am following up a complaint I may look at the premises as a snapshot for the purposes of enforcement expectations, depending on the circumstances. But under a general inspection I see myself as someone there to help people comply with the legislation. Hopefully by the time I leave them they are on track to improving fire safety and the next time I/we visit procedures and management will be in place.

[zimmy]

The risk calculator will give a re-inspection date up to 72 months dependent on the FSEC category and the compliance or not of the managers of the premises.

Jokar

As far as i am aware, the risk rating calculator only gives a risk rating. It does not dictate any reinspection frequencies. I refer you to the 'Article 15' thread. Individual Brigades are free to set their own frequencies which I presume many have done. If I am wrong in this, I would be interested to know where you arrived at the above conclusion, is this your Brigades policy as an example or is it determined by something I've missed?

Thanks

[jokar]

You are correct of course, the indivdual FRS will have a risk matric to go with it to set re-inspection dates.  Again this was aprt of the CFOA package and to achieve consistency FRS were asked to utilise the CFOA detail.  However, many have not and therefore Companies across E and W are again confused by enforcement issues in differing Brigades.