Author Topic: Earth Fault  (Read 40041 times)

Offline Abdi12

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Earth Fault
« on: October 11, 2006, 06:09:13 PM »
Earth faults are common faults that do occur in fire alarm panels,

My Question is what are the main and best methods of diagnosing earth faults in zones or sounder circuits?


Best Regards
Abdi
Always learning and learning...

Offline Wiz

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Earth Fault
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2006, 11:26:39 PM »
When an earth fault warning appears on a fire alarm control panel, it is not always definite that there is an earth fault on an external cable. A fault could have appeared in the circuitry and is just manifesting itself as an earth fault condition. The first step is always to temporarily disconnect the 'incoming' earth (normally the earth of the mains input supply) to the control panel because this is used as a reference to monitor for earth faults. If the fault condition doesn't disappear when you disconnect the 'incoming' earth then it is likely that the internal circuitry is at fault. (please note however that there may be other 'incoming' earths other than that of the mains supply - so check for this) Remember to reconnect the incoming earth after testing - this is required for safety reasons!!!!!

Once the liklihood of a panel circuitry fault is discounted. it is necessary to find out exactly which loop/zone/sounder circuit the earth fault is on since the earth warning indication is normally a general warning and not identified by circuit. To do this, a multimeter can be used to measure the resistance from external circuits to earths to locate the problem circuit. alternatively, all external circuit (loop/zone/sounder etc) earths should be disconnected from the earth terminals and the earth fault warning indication should disappear. Reconnect earth wires one at a time until the fault warning condition reappears. Once it does the last circuit connected is that with the earth fault!

To locate an earth fault on an external circuit, connect just the faulty circuit earth and disconnect the earth wire at various points along that circuit until the fault warning disappears again thereby locating the exact section of cable with the earth fault. The logical way to start breaking the earth on a circuit, is to start at a point approx. half way along and keeping breaking one half or the other (the faulty half) of cable until the fault is precisely located.

Finally, watch out for earth faults on more than one circuit at once. It is possible to have 'slight' earth faults on two or more circuits, that when combined are enough to trigger the earth fault warning condition, but not enough to trigger with just one 'faulty' circuit at a time. These can be a real **** to find!

Main causes of earth faults suddenly appearing on circuits that had previously been clear:

1) Water leaking into detector, sounder, joint box etc. etc.

2) Any recent work that involved drilling or inserting fixings into walls. The customer always tells you that no works have recently been carried out and when you find the fault, it turns out to be the BT man has run new cables, or the hotel owner has fixed a new picture/sign on the wall somewhere and in both cases their fixings has damaged the fire aalrm cables!!!!!

Offline kurnal

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Earth Fault
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2006, 11:44:02 PM »
Wiz
I have lost Dr Kirchoff. I think he may have gone to ground.
Hey thats some answer. practical and concise.
Would you like to join my mutual appreciation society? We could spend all day writing nice things about each other.
Just one query tho-  Why is it that the faulty loop is always the last one you test?

Offline Wiz

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Earth Fault
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2006, 12:00:59 AM »
Kurnal,
If we can bluff everyone into thinking that we know what we are talking about by all this mutual appreciation stuff, then maybe, one day, we could convince someone to pay us lots of dosh for our ramblings,then  and we could afford to live somewhere better than here in this Home for the Slightly Bewildered!

Actually, my long-winded but hopefully precise, answers are the result of years of trying to train my fire alarm engineers to get the job done properly but quickly, and so make a little profit instead of a big loss!

I think it is Kirchoffs forty-second Law of Life that explains why the fault is always on the last circuit you test. And I believe only Lucky knows the precise formula to prove it.

Offline Thebeardedyorkshireman

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Earth Fault
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2006, 11:51:47 AM »
The rule is the 49th law of sod......And is only invoked when you have promised to take her out for the evening and you picked up a last call that everybody else back heeled.
There is a lot of good guidance given by the members of this forum to those who are new to our field. Most of you give it without holding back trade secrets and therefore I offer this surefire way of finding earth faults to our new friend.
Follow what Wiz said because its good advice. If you get stuck follow this proceedure.
Disconnect your circuit from the panel. If its a zone or sounder dis the EOL. If its a loop lift out both ends.
Connect your suspect circuit to a hard 24volts (fused) and disconnect the earth conductor for that circuit.
 Measure your 24volts at the eol or loop end position to check.
(Short out your isolator bases if NOT voltage dependant like apollo and test again at the loop end for an analogue)
Measure voltage between the + leg and earth at the panel. write down the reading
ditto - leg. write down the reading.
Go half way down your circuit and disconect both legs. Go back to your panel and measure again. Is there no voltage to earth ? if so then your fault is on the back half. If it has changed but you still have voltage then you have multiple earths. Fix the front half, reconnect and do it all again. work towards the end of the circuit.
I really really dont want to say this but you could calculate some of the readings and work out where the fault is but I would recommend that at your stage you try trial and error.
If it works.. stick a tenner in the box at your local fire station. If it blows up...I have never been near a computer in my life let alone on an internet forum officer....ps if you are trying a sounder circuit and it goes off, reverse the voltage
pps dont try to measure for earth resistance with a digital meter.... find yourself an old AVO 8 and you will save yourself years of work. Lock it in the boot of your car and never ever tell anybody that you have one.
Dave

Graeme

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Earth Fault
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2006, 12:33:41 PM »
nice lists.

is it MICC cable ?

Offline Abdi12

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Earth Fault
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2006, 08:48:18 PM »
My thanks to wiz and that beardedyorkshireman, your replies to my question were much appreciated.

I particularly find the wiz method slightly easier, some of his methods mirror some of mine....
Always learning and learning...

Offline KEV1

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Earth Fault
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2007, 10:37:20 PM »
Can Anybody Help I Have A Fx3000 Addressable Fire Panel It Has Got A Intermitant Earth And Sounder Faulty Any Ideas How To Find It!

Offline KEV1

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Earth Fault
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2007, 10:39:33 PM »
How Do You Bring Up The Display Log On A Fx3000 Fire Panel Please

Graeme

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Earth Fault
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2007, 08:02:33 PM »
islolate the screens that are terminated in the control panel.
When the system is clear and stable,the ones that are still disconnected are the problem and that circuit will have to be investigated.

sounder and earth faults are sometimes caused by water ingress. Check any external sounders or ones in areas that get hosed down.
Has the building had a leak or flood? check any sounders that are ceiling mounted if so.

Offline KEV1

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Earth Fault
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2007, 10:00:21 PM »
can any one tell me what the codes are for a jsb fx3000 and can yuo go into the log like the fx3302 many thanks