Author Topic: When is a fire door not a fire door? (Read 9487 times)

Ashley Wood · « **on:** December 05, 2006, 08:08:19 PM »

I have recently carried out a fire risk assessment on a council building. One of the 'fire doors' is causing me some concern. The door is a substantial bit of woodwork and is basically a hard wood door about 50mm thick with two pains of 'pyro' glass in it. The door has no hinges but is held in place by a fixing at its base into the floor and a fixing at the top held into the frame. The door swings both ways and the floor fixing and mechanism seems to be what closes the door. When the door is open you can see a gap between the door and the frame of around 3mm. The edge of the door on both sides is domed so that when it closes it sits close to the frame. The frame has a metal strip in it with what I am assuming are two intumasent strips running from top to bottom! There is nothing on the door to give a clue i.e colours. The councils own building control officers are scratching their heads!

Has anyone had experience with this type of door? The door provides access from an admin. area with 30-40 persons in it to an escape stairway and then out of the building.

Help........

John Webb · « **Reply #1 on:** December 05, 2006, 10:12:35 PM »

Worth a check with TRADA, perhaps?

kurnal · « **Reply #2 on:** December 05, 2006, 11:31:20 PM »

If its a recent door someone should know something of its history. What type of metal are the strips? Sealmaster make a load of intumescent products housed in aluminium channelling. My gut feeling is that the hinges should not be a problem so long as the meltng point is ok- especally with a hardwood door which I believe is less susceptible to warping under the heat of a fire. (Challenge to me mate Auntie Lin to tell me I am talking cobblers as usual)

Ashley Wood · « **Reply #3 on:** December 06, 2006, 08:42:11 AM »

The channeling does look like it is aluminium. The door was installed in the mid 80's

jayjay · « **Reply #4 on:** December 06, 2006, 01:34:19 PM »

I have come across similar doors in schools they were installed in the 80s around the time intumescent and smoke seals were being first introduced. They will have most likely to have been fitted as half hour fire resisting door but around that time very few authorities were asking for smoke seals as it was not a requirement of Approved Document B or indeed in any BS or Home Office code. Also around that time very few fire resisting doors had any identification.

The doors are probably ok and providing the gaps are as you say 3mm but not more than 4mm they should be ok to upgrade with smoke seals.
Which is what I always recommend. The beauty is that a good joiner can remove the aluminium strips and replace them with some thing like the dual strip. Providing this is done on all door edges, the gaps are sealed, and the closers (floor plates) cause the doors to meet correctly they will be effective.

Hope that helps.

p.b.morgan · « **Reply #5 on:** December 07, 2006, 03:59:57 PM »

Try these links:

http://www.intfire.com/ and go to the downloads or perhaps even more usefully

http://www.intfire.com/dl/UPGRADE.pdf

alanfcox · « **Reply #6 on:** January 03, 2007, 06:22:54 PM »

It sounds to me that it was probably an existing door that someone has tried to upgrade by fitting fire resisting glazing and intumescent strips. You have indicated that it has pyro glass - do you know which one and did you note how it was installed? This can be very important in how a door reacts in a fire situation. You have not indicated what fire resistance that you are trying to achieve - presumably 30 mins. Is there any information available from when it was upgraded - it may have been looked at by a specialist who specified the work that was required, or if it is a very important door in the fire defence stratagy you may need to get a specialist invoved. From what you say it does appear to be a Sealmaster Intumescent Product and if smoke stopping is important a smoke seal should also be fitted -if none of the above options are possible you may need to carry out a seperate fire risk assessment on the door and place it with the Fire Risk Assessment. Just a word of warning on this - it is a very difficult job trying to predict how a door will react in a fire situation and if you don't have the knowledge it is best to get someone involved who has specialist knowledge. I did produce a Fire Door Educational Package some years ago which covered all these aspects and you may wish to obtain a copy.

Auntie LIn · « **Reply #7 on:** January 03, 2007, 10:02:52 PM »

Ashley - if you want to let me have a note of your address I'll send you a copy of ASDMA's Best Practice Guide for Timber Fire Doors. It's probably more relevant to new doors but you'll pick up a bit of good background information from it. ASDMA has also just produced some guidance notes for Responsible Persons on fire doors and you can have a copy of that too.

I'll also wholeheartedly endorse Alan's Fire Door Video and supporting book which although now quite old (like most of us who were involved with it) it does give quite a lot of practical advice.

Ashley Wood · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2007, 08:30:23 AM »

Alan and Auntie Lin, thanks for the additional info. Regarding my address, please click on the web site link and look at 'location'. Once again, thanks for everybody's input.

Best regards

Ashley

Fishy · « **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2007, 09:11:18 AM »

Anyone who's assessing the fire resistance performance of timber doorsets should make themselves familiar with BS 8214 - the 'Code of practice for fire door assemblies with non-metallic leaves'. Expensive to buy, but your local library should be able to get you a copy.

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Author Topic: When is a fire door not a fire door? (Read 9487 times)