Fire Risk Assesment

[Nicki]

Hi, I am undertaking the fire risk assessment for a building which is used as an etnic school on a saturday adn for a few classes during week day evenings.

There is a new building which was built by Crosby homes that complies with the fire regulations, i.e all doors are fire doors there is a smoke detector system and fire alarm with alert panels & emergency lighting The old building which is attatched to the new building (has none of the above)has two classrooms with toilets downstairs, (you have an entrance with 2 toilets straight ahead and two classrooms either side with approz 10 students in each)

There are a further 2 classrooms upstairs, access via exterior metal stairs with a further 2 classrooms. There is a further floor from here which is used as a store room for the costumes.

My question is, do all the doors in the old building have to be changed to fire doors for legislation or can we change them in the future when the classrooms are renovated. There are fire extinguishers and fire action signs and battery operated smoke alarms. I am looking into wireless fire alarms/detectors but the budget for the school is very small. All in all the actual risks are quite small in the buildings as there are no books/papers stored in any of the classrooms. The students bring their books with them and take them away so nothing is stored in the building.

My obvious priority is to ensure the building is safe for the children first and foremost but also don't want to send the school into debt. I was also hoping once i had finished the assessment was to ask our local fire station if someone was able to come and check over what we have done and recommended. Unfortunately the committee is not too keen to pay for consultancy.

Your comments would be greatly appreciated.

[Jim Creak]

Unfortunately, The committee must appoint a competent person , competence beihg measured by the combination of knowledge and experience..which if required to be examined can stand up to scutiny. You really have to stand up and be counted on this one it is for you to decide if you require further expertise or not.

I actually don't think you require advice from the Fire Service.. I think you are competent, I think you understand your situation very well. I think you want absolution for your time scale,priorities and action plan which you will not get from anyone even a consultant..they will all have a different view.. I think you know what is the perfect arrangements  and what is satisfactory arrangements. You have found some significant findings and you have drawn up a strategic review. I think whatever you decide will be based on the very best for the pupils and teachers lives first but also ensuring that the school does not suffer too much as a consequence. I believe this is totally appropriate and once implemented cannot possibly be in breach of the legislation.

[Graeme]

I am looking into wireless fire alarms/detectors
.

why can't you extend the system that is in place in the new building?

[kurnal]

Hi Nicki
As Jim says you are probably fully competent to recognise all the issues here, but just in case it will help I would need to ask a few more questions.
Taking your posting step by step

"I am undertaking the fire risk assessment for a building which is used as an etnic school on a saturday adn for a few classes during week day evenings."

All areas occupied during hours of darkness will need  arrangements for emergency lighting. Think also about cleaners working alone - its ok to take borrowed light from streetlights into account, provided it gives  0.5 Lux in rooms and 1 Lux in corridors and changes of directon, steps etc ( you may be able to borrow a light meter)  and your arrangements may range from handlamps if its just a cleaner to an emergency escape lighting system for the evening classes for the Public.

"There are a further 2 classrooms upstairs, access via exterior metal stairs with a further 2 classrooms. There is a further floor from here which is used as a store room for the costumes."

Is the external staircase the only way of accessing the upstairs rooms or can they use an internal staircase as well?

How do you access the store room and how often is it used?

Is it a building of traditional construction or combustible materials?

How many children may use each classroom and what is the furthest they would have to travel from the furthest corner of a class room to reach the outside?

Do any of the rooms contain a kitchen or boiler or store room for highly flammable materials?

Not all doors may need to be fire resisting doors but if they open onto a staircase they will need to be to a half hour standard.

Battery smoke alarms may be ok as a short term stop gap only but if the new buildings and the old are linked in any way then you need a common system for both sides.  Its not good practice to have a different alarm system in different parts of the school and the batteries may go flat unnoticed whilst the school is unoccupied. They are most likely not sufficiently audible in any case.

[Richard Earl]

hi ,

i work for one of the most knowlagable fire companies in wireless i recommend you call them. we only put wireless in difficult or heratige buildings ie St Pauls etc

they ARENT that cost effective!  they are to put in ( no wire cost ) but batteries ARE expensive.  i have emailed you my contact details call me if you wish

[Nicki]

Thank you all for replying to my post.

Kurnal, The classrooms do not have access to street lights. If we ensure the old building is not used in the evening and only the new building (which I think it is actually) and only using it during the day, would torches stored in the classroom be sufficient. Basically between the two classrooms on the ground floor and the two on the 1st floor, the distance from the furthest corner in the room to the fire escape is no more than 20ft.

The upstairs classroom is only accessible in and out from the external stairs. From the first floor classrooms there is then internal staircase to the store room which is only accessed a few times a year as it stores the costume. It currently has a smoke alarm inside the storeroom but i am proposing to add another one outside the store room as on the slight chance that a fire may begin up there at least it will be heard from the landing. Currently the door leading out of the 1st floor building is a UPVC one.

None of the classrooms have any electrical equipment in them. One of the classrooms on the 1st floor has the central heating boiler for that building. (i have ordered Carbon monoxide detectors for that room) and also for the kitchen in the new building which houses the other boiler. In that kitchen there is only a kettle and a photo copier. No microwave or cooking facilities at all.

The building is of traditional construction. We recently had our annual service of the fire equipment where it was highlighted that the smoke detector system and fire alarm were recommended for the old building. I think they quoted about £2500.00 + vat. which was met with a little shock from the committee. I want to make the school secure and obviously i am trying to push forward for the school to do it as it means we are doing the best we can to minimise the risk. I checked with the buildings insurance to see if it was a requirement from them to have the above, and was suprised to find that it wasn't.

I would be grateful for any advise, thank you

[Jim Creak]

Nicki, The more you tell me I can assume all sorts of risk.. Costumes, Dry Cleaning.... Spontaneous combustion.. boiler rooms etc etc etc. This makes me liable to make all the recomendations you do not want to hear if only for the sake of my professional liability insurance premium.

Honestly I feel you are the best person to give balance to risk, probability and consequence. You have a clear understanding of the options and provisions on an essential basis and those that would be part of an improvement plan.

Those areas that are covered by an improvement plan may require management as with the availablity of the Torches for escape route illumination until the committee make the funds available for something a little more automatic.

You know it is not perfect and we always have to strive for perfection, however this situation is manageable with the cooperation of all parties. If it is not then you know the answer to each and every question you pose.

[kurnal]

Nicki
In carrying out your risk assessment it is important to be clear who is at risk and from where the fire risk will arise.  Otherwise the investment you make in risk control measures may not give you best value for money.

This sounds like a small building that has been extended. Unless a  fire in the either part could not possibly affect the other part (compartment wall to roof level, with no interconnecting doors or shared escape routes) you should extend the fire alarm to the old part of the school as a priority.

The fire alarm for the old part may not need automatic detection unless there is potential for a fire to start and develop unseen- for example would the upper classroom be occupied whilst the ones beneath were empty, or would people be at risk in the upper floor if a fire were to break out in the upper floor store room?
What is the fire separation between the ground floor rooms and the first floor?
After all people are the best form of smoke detection. Probably the person at greatest risk may be the person working in the top floor store room especially if the lower floors are unoccupied.

Otherwise a manually operated fire alarm may be all that you need.

Similarly with fire resisting doors- if a fire occurred downstairs could the escape route from upstairs be affected? If for example there are doors or windows beneath the external staircase? If the answer is yes, then these doors/ windows  may need to be protected.  

Is there a need for a fire door to the store room? This could perhaps protect people in the class room  a little should a fire occur in the store but only if walls are to a similar fire resisting standard.  But if someone is working in the store and a fire breaks out elsewhere a fire door on the store will do nothing for them.

The HMSO fire safety guides give advice on this and all other aspects, and the design and advice on fire safety in schools is covered by a special government publication -   Building Bulletin 7 has been in force for many years and has recently been superceded by building bulletin 100.(BB100) If you cant find a copy on the internet, then try technical indexes or barbour- your library should be able to help. Its important to have a benchmark standard against which to measure your premises, and then from which to compare the strengths of your building- such as very small travel distances to reach an exit with potential weaknesses such as a lack of fire doors

Hope this has been some help to you.