Hazchem signs

[Big A]

This has probably been discussed before but what is the panel's opinion on hazard warning signs now that there is no requirement for Hazchem signs?

[jokar]

They can be maintained under Article 38 and may be needed under Article 16 if Article 12 is not enough.  I trust that makes some sense if you have the document with you.

[Jim Creak]

Whilst there may be no prescribed requirement for these signs. The view has been expressed that as the convention is known, clearly understood and is a very effective system for site identification,designation and warning. As these signs are appropriate as applied under consultation with fire authority it is by agreement between the parties that the display at site could be deemed necessary for this purpose.

[Big A]

Thanks to you both,
I am inclined to agree that Article 38 would include Hazard Warning signs but higher authorities in my brigade think that Art 38 only applies to firefighting equipment, devices etc . Could you point me towards some guidance to back up our point of view, please?

[Jim Creak]

The case for requirement under consultation should be made to aid fire fighting, location of hazard and equipment are treated the same under the Management of Health and Safety. There is no requirement to quote chapter and verse of some prescriptive article any more because the RP has a duty to use ALL appropriate techniques for the COLLECTIVE protection of all personnell on the premises. He must consider your appropriate proposal for the collective protection of the fire fighter and act in accordance with best practice.

[jokar]

As you read Article 38 you will see that it states that for protection of firefighters any facility provided under this Order or any other enactment, including any repealed or revoked, must, (absolute duty) where necessary (see the glossary of terms in the back of any guidance doc) or better still use the description in Article 13, be ...maintained... by the RP.  It follows that signage provided under other legislation whether repealed or revoked, placed for the protection of firefighters, should be maintained.  This would follow directly from Articles 12 where the FRA should indicate Dangerous substances as Ignition sources in Step 1 and then people at risk, including firefighter in Step 2.  The control measures that come out of this FRA will include the provision of information to firefighters in some form.  It is not necessarily signage but that existing as a control measure should be kept.

[Big A]

I agree completely about Article 38 although it seems to me that Articles 12 and 13 and not applicable here. Article 12 (1) and (2) refers to 'relevant persons' while Article 13 is about fire-fighting, or would you say that hazard warning/action notices fit into 13 (3) ?