CP3: Chapter IV : Part 1 : 1971

[JC100]

All

The main cover for this guide says 'Flats and maisonettes (in blocks over two storeys)'. Is there a guide for blocks of flats up to 2 storeys?

This query is in relation to existing fire doors (still present from when it was built) on the entrances to flats and the requirements for the standards for these doors, if any?

Example: Take a small 2 storey, purpose built block containing 4 flats (2 up, 2 down) all accessible from an internal communal area.

If there was no requirement at the time to fit a fire door, unless we change the door now, is there a problem? Can it be forced, with regards to leaseholders who own their front door?

BS 5588-1 says that all entrance doors from a communal corridor should be FD30s but this isn't retrospective so unless the door is changed, it doesn't apply.

How would this fit in with the RR(FS)O and enforcing?

Your opinions please

[kurnal]

When was the block that you have in mind built? Over the years the building Regulations Approved Documents  and before them the Mandatory Rules For Means Of Escape have changed.

But from the RRO viewpoint all that should be of concern now is whether relevant persons may be placed at risk whilst using the common areas - are they safe from a fire in the adjoining flat that they may have to pass to reach the exit? Is there a risk of fire spread from one flat to another? Depends on a lot of things - internal layout of flats, volume of the space, but I feel that it may be hard to find an argument not to install fire doors to flats.

[JC100]

Blocks were built in 1974. Everything else seems good, and just all seems let down by these doors.

I agree with you that iaw the RRO all effort should be made to make sure the communal area is safe.

Would the fire brigade be able to enforce on this though? Could you not argue that if the building was fine at time of building (and hasn't changed), then it should be fine now? (a question that i will no doubt be asked)

I want fire doors to be installed, but without being in control of a budget i just want to get my facts together so i can make a strong case to those who are respnsible.

[kurnal]

Proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

You are most unlikely to ever to have an audit visit by the fire authority  unless you have a fire or someone makes a complaint.

Then they will ask to see your fire risk assessment for the common areas and make a judgement as to whether its suitable and sufficent. Its not the fire authority you have to convince- its the courts if a complaint is made or someone gets hurt.
It is not a secure argument to rely on past standards-the fact is that in response to fires over the years lessons are learned and standards do change. They are not always applied retrospectively becuase of the cost when viewed from a National Perspective- Governments want to get re-elected. This all changed on the advent of the RRO when the Government indicated without being specific that some sectors woould face direct costs. In particular the care industry - the old draft standard was ripped up and new requirements imposed over self closing doors- and the small hotels that had formerly fallen outside fire certification.  
The benchmark against which your buildings should be measured is the current standard.
If you dont have fire doors what standard are your existing doors, what protection would they provide and is it sufficient for the small premises in question?
If you dont want to upgrade all doors are downstairs doors more urgent than the upstairs doors? Are there any other rooms/ refuse stores opening into the common areas?
Could anything else give a similar level of protection a system of one  heat detector/ sounder  in each  flat all interlinked or ventilation in the common area?

[CivvyFSO]

And, since you are only looking at 2 storeys, would window escapes be a reasonable option with good fitting doors?

[JC100]

All very good points to thnk about. Thanks for your help