Author Topic: Surface Spread of Flame.  (Read 15544 times)

Offline John Webb

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Surface Spread of Flame.
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2007, 10:13:00 AM »
I've not got my Vol 2 copy yet, neither do I have access to any of BS476, so I am happy to be corrected.

I'd agree with you that the FRA route seems most sensible (and is the 'legal' way to go), but that of course does not prevent someone from demanding their own (higher?) standard on their own property.
John Webb
Consultant on Fire Safety, Diocese of St Albans
(Views expressed are my own)

Offline Martin Burford

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Surface Spread of Flame.
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2007, 11:20:54 AM »
twsutton
Class O is a requirement for ESCAPE ROUTES............and is non combustible
Class 1 is a requirement for rooms, other than small rooms.
Portable structures should conform to Class 1, in my opinion. however what type of portable structure were you suggesting...Marquees and the like ?
Conqueror

Offline Tom Sutton

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« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2007, 11:31:32 PM »
John being a cheap skate I use the downloaded version from http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/professionals/en/1115314110382.html

Conqueror, it depends on which guidance you are reading. If you are reading the building regs Class O is a requirement for circulations spaces. (Which could be ESCAPE ROUTES)? The definition of class O is a little broader, ADB vol 2 Page 120 Para 13, see below,

13. The highest National product performance classification for lining materials is Class 0. This is achieved if a material or the surface of a composite product is either:

a. composed throughout of materials of limited combustibility; or

b. a Class I material which has a fire propagation index (big I) of not more than 12 and sub-index (little i) of not more than 6.

Note: Class 0 is not a classification identified in any British Standard test.

The type of portable structure in question was a point of sale display, in duty free area of an airport.
All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution.

Offline John Webb

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Surface Spread of Flame.
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2007, 01:06:48 PM »
Thanks - all noted.
John Webb
Consultant on Fire Safety, Diocese of St Albans
(Views expressed are my own)

Offline Fishy

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Surface Spread of Flame.
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2007, 11:24:19 AM »
With regard to the second para. - your first statement is correct, but your conclusion does not follow.  BAA are actually exempt from the Building Regulations, but there is absolutely nothing stopping them demanding contractually that their suppliers conform with as much or as little of the relevant guidance documents as they wish.  They can demand compliance with French, German, Zimbabwean or Outer Mongolian guidance and/or regulation if they want to, and whilst you or I might have views on how sensible it is, if that's what they want then any suppliers, tenants etc just have to like it or lump it!  If their suppliers don't comply, they'll be in breach of contract.

As another example, London Underground are exempt from the requirements of the Building Act, but use Class '0' in some of their materials fire performance requirements, for installations that are clearly not within the scope of 'linings' as defined in the ADB.  They also demand extraordinary high levels of smoke and toxicity performance too.  If your client were to be setting up shop in one of their stations, any bleating about the ADB being inappropriate / inapplicable would receive a very short, succinct and definitive answer!

I'm afraid that your client just has to do the necessary and comply.  I haven't tried, but I imagine a quick trawl of the Internet would reveal suppliers of Class '0' fabrics or fabric-type materials.

Quote from: twsutton
Your first point wee brian was raised earlier in the discussion by Kurnal your second I agree with if I remember correctly polystyrene ceiling tiles disappear so fast that under test they meet the Class O criteria.

Fishy As I understand Class O is defined only in Building Regs and does nor appear in any BSS - check out ADB vol 2 Page 120 Para 13 - so I would reason that outside the building regs it does not exist. Furniture and Fittings are not controlled by Building Regs check out ADB vol 2 page 63 B2 iv unless you consider portable point-of-sale displays are not furniture and fittings?

Offline Fishy

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« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2007, 11:27:32 AM »
Conqueror:

I'm afraid that your first statement is incorrect - the requirements for a material to be demonstrated as non-combustible are far more demanding than those for Class '0'.  You can easily treat timber to make it Class 0, for example.  It is impossible to make it non-combustible (as defined in the Standards).

Quote from: Conqueror
twsutton
Class O is a requirement for ESCAPE ROUTES............and is non combustible
Class 1 is a requirement for rooms, other than small rooms.
Portable structures should conform to Class 1, in my opinion. however what type of portable structure were you suggesting...Marquees and the like ?
Conqueror

Offline Tom Sutton

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Surface Spread of Flame.
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2007, 07:42:39 PM »
Quote from: Fishy
whilst you or I might have views on how sensible it is
I agree with you fishy on what you have said but the above sentence in your submission is my main point. If the BR do not apply, why quote standards that only exist in that legislation.
Liverpool airport owned by Peel Holdings does BAA control them?
All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution.

Offline kurnal

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Surface Spread of Flame.
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2007, 09:54:27 PM »
TW
The building Act 1984 originally exempted the BAA abd CAA from compliance with the Building Regs. This was then amended by the Transport Act 2000 to cover all licenced operators of airports.

See section 7 of the this link
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2001/20014050.htm

Fishy you are bang on but it does p*** me off cos its always a matter of do as I say not as I do. Thats something I hate but as you say its a fact of life.