Fire doors or not?

[firehawk]

Hi all,

New to the forum and very keen to increase my fire safety knowledge so, any help/comments on the following would be much appreciated.

Imagine the scene; a two-storey grade II listed building which has been converted to offices - each office on each of the floors have been rented to seperate companies.  All fixtures and fittings are period in keeping with the building so, the office doors do not have intumescent or smoke seals, are not self-closing and are the original wooden panelled variety found in your typical Georgian style building.

Each office door opens onto the communal corridor/escape route both on the ground and first floors.  There is no early warning detection system within the building.  Fire extinguishers have been positioned (by the landlord) on each floor suitable for the risk.  Each office, when occupied, contains a minimum of two persons.

Question:  
Do the office doors need to be 'fire doors' with self-closers and intumescent because they each open onto the communal corridor/escape route and thus a fire within an office could potentially effect the escape route?

Would the addition of an AFD remove the need for the doors to be upgraded as an engineering method to compensate for the age/type of the doors?

Thank you in advance.

[kurnal]

The first consideration should be the fre risk- what is there to burn, who would be at risk, how big how high is the building.
To answer your questions :

Yes they should be fire doors but it is possible that they could be suitable for upgrade towards a half hour standard without spoiling their appearance. Seals and self closers would be required.

Automatic smoke detection, good evacuation procedures could compensate for shortcomings in the structure provided other factors are safely controlled

[firehawk]

Thanks Kurnal, much appreciated.  The contents of each office are what can only be described as 'typical' office environment; couple of wooden desks, chairs, PC, Printer, fax and metal filing cabinets.

I've also been advised to investigate intumescent paints?

[kurnal]

Is the purpose of the intimescent paint to improve the fire performance of the doors?
If so you would be well advised to take a look at the BM TRADA document "fire doorsets by upgrading" , the ASDMA (Architectural and specialist door manufacturers association) publication "Best Practice guide to timber  fire doors" the English Heritage website and specialist manufactuers of these systems for the upgrading of doors- such as Sealmaster of Cambridge, Envirograph and others.

You will need to assess your doors against the tried and tested methods for upgrading and carefully follow the procedures.

The need for AFD will depend on the standard of fire resistance of the office doors and partitions and also on how the building is used- if a fire could start in an unoccupied room on the ground floor and develop unseen and undetected to the extent that it may cut off escape from the upper floor then detection may be needed anyway. Is there currently an electrical alarm system installed?

[Martin Burford]

Firehawk
Is the corridor a " dead end " corridor....................and no the additrion of AFD, in my opinion may not act as a compensentory feature for structural protection of ESCAPE ROUTES
Investigate the various methods of using intumescent paint treatments, ensuring of course, ALL DOCUMENTATION is obtained.
Conqueror

[Uncle Dave]

I've also been advised to investigate intumescent paints?

If intumescent paint is to make a significant contribution to the fire resistance of a door then it will need to be applied in a thick coat.  Think about what is likely to happen.  Somebody decides to redecorate (because the door looks poor?) and removes the intumescent paint, so any protection it gave is gone.

You might guess I think upgrading using intumescent paint is a bad idea.

Dave

Edited for spelling.

[firehawk]

Thanks for all your comments guys.

There's no early warning fire detection system present and there is a dead-end corridor.

The landlord has decided to install intumescent seals and self-closers and to obtain a quote for mains wired detectors (with backup) throughout with manual break glass points at strategic points within the escape routes.

Just to throw another question into the pot, the final exit door on the ground floor opens onto 500mm sq, raised, paving slab thus forming a single step.  Is there anything to state what the minimum distance is that this step must protude from the final exit door?  Someone has suggested it should be 300mm beyond the width of the opened door? EG the door is 750mm wide thus the step should extend at least 1050mm from the final exit.

[kurnal]

Sounds like the first step should be a fire risk assessment before spending any money on seals paint or alarms. If you need detection to control the level of risk then it needs to be installed correctly. Sounds like your boss has decided what risk control measures he wants to implement before identifying exactly what the risk is. Letting the tail wag the dog is never cost effective or necessarily a safe solution.

[CivvyFSO]

Is there anything to state what the minimum distance is that this step must protude from the final exit door?  Someone has suggested it should be 300mm beyond the width of the opened door? EG the door is 750mm wide thus the step should extend at least 1050mm from the final exit.

The 300m past the swing of the door used to be quoted by FRS, although now it has been mentioned and I have tried to find the source for this figure I cannot find it. Closest I can find is ADB B1 6.15, which would have the step at the same level as the fully opened door, apart from possibly one step at the line of the door. The old places of entertainment guide used to stipulate not opening outwards over a step.

I guess it would have to depend on the risk assessment, i.e. An inward opening door makes you step back an in effect gives a landing of its own, an outward opening door opening over a step might be ok if it is people who are aware of it.

[AnthonyB]

Thanks for all your comments guys.

There's no early warning fire detection system present and there is a dead-end corridor.

The landlord has decided to install intumescent seals and self-closers and to obtain a quote for mains wired detectors (with backup) throughout with manual break glass points at strategic points within the escape routes.

The system described above sounds like a BS5839-6 system - i.e. for residential/domestic premises. Some people will query why a commercial premises part 1 system is not being used with all the extra benefits, such as the cabling fire resistance and several other factors.

Personally I know of several smaller premises where a part 6 system, as long as it also includes the call points, has been considered a risk appropriate solution as far as fire regs are concerned, despite being at varience with British Standards.

Are the quotes just from electrical contractors or third party certified fire alarm companies?

There are some premises that have found to their cost that bunging in a few domestic heads does not a 'suitable & sufficient' means of fire warning make!

I bring the alarm up as the situation of Pt1 v Pt6 alarms was the subject of some debate on another thread

[nearlythere]

Firehawk
Is the corridor a " dead end " corridor....................and no the additrion of AFD, in my opinion may not act as a compensentory feature for structural protection of ESCAPE ROUTES
Investigate the various methods of using intumescent paint treatments, ensuring of course, ALL DOCUMENTATION is obtained.
Conqueror

Fire Hawk
Little bit late reading this post but you did not pick up on the query from Conqueror. Is the communal corridor/escape route a dead end condition?
Also, is it a single stairway building?

"The landlord has decided to install intumescent seals and self-closers and to obtain a quote for mains wired detectors (with backup) throughout with manual break glass points at strategic points within the escape routes."

What about the panels? The only thing that might be achieved is smoke stopping until the doors are involved in a fire.