roll call over sweep

[Richard Earl]

hi again, i have an on going battle i hope you can help with,
a client of mine wishes to carry out a roll call and sweep of her site which is office areas in a shared building, the health and safety said no you only need to doo a sweep u dont need a roll call as well. after long chats pointing out that two ways of checking people are out is best he said he will only do roll call and sweeps if he can see its a legal requirement and not just a moral on.

can anyone point me in the direction of help

thanks

richard

[CivvyFSO]

I tend to suggest sweeps in most large buildings. A roll call can often take too much time, so by the time the emergency services have arrived the occupier is still trying to account for everyone. An efficiently done sweep can quickly account for whole areas being empty, with the possiblity of a roll call for specific persons, i.e. Lone workers.

I suppose it just needs to acheive the objective: Is everyone out, Y/N?

[devon4ever]

Hi guys,
In my experience there are are pro's & cons to sweeps, or as I refer to them, "Building Evacuation Checks" undertaken upon activation of the fire alarm, as already mentioned, a sweep can be carried out silmutaneously to evacuation, providing confirmation of "Cleared" areas, the downside is that the person doing the sweep invariably has additional "Normal" tasks at work & has no idea where the fire is or even if there is one at all - (Can you see where this is going)..... and then walks smack bang into a fire situation - becoming another casualty. -

Questions:

1. Is the sweeper given adequate training to feel doors for hot spots etc?
2. Is the sweeper given adequate training for fire fighting to ensure his/her escape?
3. Is the sweeper given adequate comms to speak to outside to advise of casualties encountered or, indeed, the sweeper is in trouble?
4. If the building is large/complex, then invariably it is fitted with a zoned alarm, (that tends to narrow down the search), would we send a sweeper into that zone?

Also in my experience, sweepers tend to view themselves as fire-proof and in reality the only training & PPE they have is a Method Statement contained in the Company's H&S policy document. I would Risk Assess all the above BEFORE I would allow this type of procedure used in any Fire Safety Plan for a premises - CivvyFSO mentions "Lone-Workers", that just about sums up the sweeper in a fire alarm situation!

I'm not whole heartedly aginst sweeps but come on - once the alarm is sounded, the FRS wont be on scene for probably 5 mins, - most escape times are based on 2 mins or so, this leaves ample scope to account for personnel - unless of course you employ 1000's of people, in which case  extra marshalls are required for departmental head counts, then give numbers to the head-honcho people counter!

Your comments please

[Gasmeter]

Without using very expensive technology, there's no alternative to a 'sweep' system in buildings where movement of staff, visitors and students etc. make a role call impossible.  As long as the 'sweepers' are properly trained it works well in my experience.

[kurnal]

Hi Richard
I agree with gasmeter.

In an ideal world, if you have a small building,  a stable workforce who can be relied on to sit at their desks, not leave the site without booking out, all visitors and contractors accompanied at all times, any persons with special needs on the ground floor only where they need no assistance, verification that any person with impaired hearing is never left alone- in this case a head count is the best option.

In all other buildings the appointment of TRAINED fire wardens is usually  a better way to go, they are nominated in advance,  are given a specific predermined search area, so once outside the building the manager can quiickly join up all pieces of the jigsaw and be sure that all areas have been evacuated and that all persons in refuges etc  who may need special assistance have been found and helped out.

In most buildings refuges have been created but most do not have communications facilities. In these cases how can the manager be sure that there isnt someone awaiting assistance in a refuge, alone and vulnerable and incapable of leaving the building by their own efforts?

The legal requirement is to have in place an effective evacuation plan that caters for all building users.

[CivvyFSO]

I have been to a few places that have taken about 15-20 minutes in total to account for everyone.

At the end of the day, if they can manage to account for everyone by a roll call, then that is good. But, then there's the risk of the person who never signed in, or the person who signed in and just 'popped out' without signing out.

The training you mentioned would be a necessary part of it. Also, I always insist on hands-on extinguisher training for marshalls as they are the most likely persons to end up in a position where they have to use FFE or are even expected to use it.

With regards to the marshall becoming a casualty, a reasonable alarm system/good procedures should be picking the fire up in the early stages, good training will support the marshall in making his/her choices, they should always have the choice of walking away. So long as the marshall is not given an area that is too big, they should be quick to account for the area being clear. They hear the alarm, stand up, put their little bib on, tell everyone to get out, check a couple of rooms/toilets, and leave. (High risk areas/flammable substances/explosive atmospheres etc do change everything quite considerably.)