PCSO's defended over drowning!

[Chris Houston]

What does DRA stand for?

[The Lawman]

Dynamite Risk Assessment or should that be Dynamic?

[nearlythere]

In F&R terms a Dynamic Risk Assessment is the continuous process of identifying hazards, assessing risks, taking action to eliminate or reduce risk, monitoring and reviewing, in the rapidly changing circumstances of an operational incident.

[Midland Retty]

For many years I used to train lifeguards and the very first lesson included the mantra Reach, Throw, Wade, Row, Swim with an aid, Swim and Tow.  That's the order in which potential life saving assistance should be given.  No one should enter any body of water to effect a rescue until they had exhausted the possibilities of rescue from the shore or boat.  Even upon entering the water, wherever possible a rescuer should ensure their feet are firmly planted on the bottom.  In real life, very few lifeguards swim to perform a rescue.  Not quite the picture of bay watch then!

Quite right Colin!

Pugh Im a little confused with your post.

Firefighters are expected to risk their lives to save a saveable life and thats exactly what they do.

What is the point of anyone risking their life for someone who's already perished?.

Like we've all said its very easy and great to say "oh they should have gone in and saved him" but it is not that simple.

If any firefighter on my watch decided to go in "Gung Ho " with their "I want to be a hero" hat on diving straight into the water without quickly identifying the hazards first then I would be very concerned.

Yes emergency service personnel should (and are expected) to risk their lives to save life, but there are safe ways of doing it. Remembner the incident where a firefighter performing water rescue got into trouble and drowned a few years back? The line he was attached to being held onto by firefighters on the shore got tangled under water and he everntually got pulled under.

If  I saw a casualty in trouble we'd adopt the procedures Colin Newman gave above.

If that couldnt be achieved I would then consider committing personnel into the water if I felt that life could be saved...Now that goes against my brigades standing orders, which dictate we should await a water rescue team.

My attitude would be that if the water rescue team couldn't get there in time then we would go against standard procedure and effect a rescue. i know I could justify to my superior officer the need to ask crews to perform rescue without waiting for the water rescue team.

[Chris Houston]

In F&R terms a Dynamic Risk Assessment is the continuous process of identifying hazards, assessing risks, taking action to eliminate or reduce risk, monitoring and reviewing, in the rapidly changing circumstances of an operational incident.

What those outside the service might call "common sense"?

[pugh]

Aaah, Midland Retty, please don't confuse the ramblings of a geriatric with direct relevance to the PCSO's at the start of this post.  The point I am trying to make is that there is a movement AWAY from proper, effective and balanced DRA (which we did in the dim and distant past but didn't have a name for it) to one where the risk assessment is based more on an arse-covering exercise. (Sorry to be blunt.)

I agree wholeheartedly that risks must sometimes be taken to save a life and I have taken them as well as given the orders but, as has already been stated, we are standing back in 'defensive mode' at jobs, whereas years ago they would be considered 'bread & butter' jobs and the fire tackled and extinguished inside the building with a minimum of fuss and a quiet pride in a job well done.  It may be coincidence but it seems that since the fire service has come more under the scrutiny of the press and television, and more and more the public are seeing 'the job' from the inside, the ability to make sound operational decisions has been undermined and made the basis of a formula, i.e. risk x cost/benefit, or something similar.

The modernisation of the service has also had a negative impact on the ability to make decisions, as having all the right PQA's doesn't necessarily equip you to be an effective incident commander.  It just means that when a decision is eventually reached, you will have considered the ethnic diversity of your crew, their sexual orientation, physical abilities, time of the month and whether or not it is a full moon, etc.  Plus, as a first-rate communicator, you will have been able to explain fully to all concerned how you arrived at your decision and, as you are adept at working with others you will have the crew behind you 100%.  As a good listener and counsellor, you will also need to gird your loins as you are about to have to deal with an irate property owner who initially called you to deal with a chimney fire but now looks on with utter disbelief at the burnt-out ruins of his former home.

I know, I digress and I exagerate.  But that is how it feels from this end of a career (for wont of a better word).

[nearlythere]

In F&R terms a Dynamic Risk Assessment is the continuous process of identifying hazards, assessing risks, taking action to eliminate or reduce risk, monitoring and reviewing, in the rapidly changing circumstances of an operational incident.

What those outside the service might call "common sense"?

And what those in the service call "covering your arse"

[Chris Houston]

This debate seems to have moved on a bit from the origianal subject (which is fair enough).  I would add that while it seems that defensive fire fighting is more popular and large losses are too, the architects and businessess of the world who build such large open plan buildings of materials (such as unprotected, or 30 minute protected) steel frames, but take some responsibility for creating buildings that are difficult to deal with.