Period doors

[Taiter]

I was asked the other day if it would be acceptable to keep period doors (in keeping with the age of the building) so long as they were treated with an intumescent paint or varnish?  In order to achieve travel distance in a single direction of travel it was proposed to install fire doors between compartments.  The management want to keep the existing doors and are asking if by painting the doors this would somehow provide the same protection as a more modern fire door.

The doors in question are solid timber but would be unlikely to be considered fire doors.  The building they are in is a museum dating from the 16th century (although the doors would be much later than that, yet in keeping with the building).  

I have never been asked this nor have considered this.  Any comments gratefully received.

Cheers

[kurnal]

There are many ways of upgrading existing doors that will achieve an improved fire safety performance though the results can never be guaranteed unless an identical door has been upgraded in an identical way and subjected to a full fire test.
But upgrades are often the only acceptable solution in a heritage building. It needs to be considered in conjunction with a fire risk assessment to determine the level of protection required from the doorsets, the standards of upgrade which is possible in the circumstances and whether any alternative methods of protection may be appropriate instead of or as well as the upgrades to the doors.


Do a google search and take a look at the English Heritage website, The ASDMA(Architectural and specialsit door manufacturers association), TRADA (fire doorsets by upgrading document)  and some of the upgrade product manucterers such as sealmaster and envirograph. There are many more.

[Martin Burford]

Taiter

I cannot add further re upgrading doorsets to what Kurnal has said, however please also bear this in mind:
The combustibilty of timber doors may often be temporarily increased by the need to treat wood to protect it from rot and infestation. Thus whilst this process is in operation all sources of ignition should be removed from the close proximity and also provide satisfactory ventilation. Particular attention should be paid to the adequate ventilation of voids and normal precautions and inspections increased during this period, and immediately after the works have been completed.
ope this helps.
Conqueror

[Ken Taylor]

I've taken Kurnal's approach for various listed and historic buildings in conjunction with related risk assessment. Many of these old doors are quite substantial compared with modern offerings.

[John Webb]

"Timber panelled doors and fire" published by English Heritage in 1997 (there may be a newer edition) is a comprehensive review of the need and the way of upgrading doors. Also of relevance is "The use of intumescent products in historic buildings" also by EH and also published in 1997.

Sorry for the delay in posting this info - it took me some time to find my copies.

Also located was an interesting comment by the late Ron Bentley in 'Fire Prevention', issue 318, published in March 1999. In this he argues that provided a heritage building is equipped with fire detection, doors may only need to be fire resistant for around 15mins. He points out that fire spread at Windsor Castle and Storment spread mostly via ceiling voids and roof spaces - doors were only subjected to fire for a few minutes as the fire spread upwards.

[Auntie LIn]

Two things to consider:

1   If you're going to 'paint' the surface of a door and expect it to improve the fire performance, what happens when the paint chips?

2   If the joints in the construction aren't proper joinery joints (eg mortise & tenon) they may have been glued.   Old doors were glued with animal glue.   How do you get animal glue workable?   Answer:  you heat it up.   Therefore, there is the potential that in a fire the glued joints will soften and weaken.

[nearlythere]

Can remember a company who would take door away for treatment.  The rails and styles of the door where of substantial construction. The only problem were the panels. It was not just a question of laying on the intumescent varnish as thick as possible. The door was removed to the company workshop where the beading and panels were removed. The panels were backed with a layer of intumescent matting on the risk side.  The rebates were painted with intumescent varnish, the panels replaced using intumescent putty, beading screwed on and a final coat of intumescent varnish applied. Intumescent strips with seals then fitted around the door which was then stamped with a serial number and certified.
It looked a pretty good job but at around £100 per door (around 20 years ago) it was only for the few.

[jane1809]

Hi - complete novice here. Have taken on a listed Victorian B&B and we are in the process of complete renovation. Had an initial visit from the local Fire Officer and taken advice. The doors to guest bed rooms on the top floor pose most issues. As you enter this (3rd - attic) floor, the first guest room is to be completely new remodelled space and a new fire wall & door created. The problem lies with the doors to the final bedrooms. These are the furthest rooms in the house from the exits (still meets all travel distance) - they are to be let as one unit (max guests 3). All other doors, hard wired zoned alarm etc will be totally complient. My FO has agreed that it would be acceptable to panel the existing heavy 4 panel period doors with intumescent board - my builder disagrees -
If I could send my period doors to be stripped and made complient as described by Nearly There  - my problems may be solved

[nearlythere]

What's you question Jane1809?

[Martin Burford]

Jane
Same answer as Nearly................whats your question?
Conqueror

[jane1809]

sorry!
Which company treats the doors? - any contact details would be much appreciated please
Jane

[John Dragon]

Try Envirograf   (Liverpool area I think).
They have supplied an intumescent paint to one of our clients who then had to paint his doors with 7 or 8 coats.
I believe a certificate was also issued??
Can find out more if required.

[jane1809]

Will do. Thanks for the direction. Excellent web site - very informative.
Jane