Loft conversion - existing doors and Open plan

[Brian Downes]

Kurnal,
           I think SC's  or RBH's are a waste of time in a domestic dwelling. The Doors will be wedged during the day but hopefully closed at night, so I guess I agree with ADB.
The Chief BCO insisted on the SC's as well as LD1, I think that was politics, he didn't want to capitulate to my solution entirely. Unfortunately it is my client who will suffer
Brian

[CivvyFSO]

Kurnal,

The way I had it explained to me by someone who was involved with the writing of the new ADB, was that even if you go to bed and leave to doors open, in the event of a fire starting downstairs it should be picked up by afd, and this should give you time to investigate and make the judgement as to getting straight out, or closing the door and retreating upstairs.

In my opinion, not much thought has given to the worst case scenario, i.e. a rapidly devoloping fire. Fair enough, most house fires probably start quite slowly and a mojority of furniture etc is flame retardant, but the worst WILL happen eventually, whether it involves curtains, a christmas tree (some good video footage of this particular case is on the net), clothing or something else, it can (And one WILL) develop fast.

[CivvyFSO]

For what it's worth:

http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/downloads/media/tree_fire.mpeg

Link to xmas tree fire for anyone who hasn't seen it. Before you decide to banish trees from your house and upset your kids this Christman, this tree is completely dried out. (There's another video showing the difference of a watered tree and a dry tree and they could not ignite the watered tree.)

[kurnal]

Yes CivvyFSO I too have heard that point of view but it doesnt sit very easily with me.
I recognise and accept that fire doors in private dwellings are most likely to be disabled and doors wedged and even the most disciplined people may forget to shut them at night it they have been on the razzle. This is a real problem making self closing doors basically unsuitable for life safety in private dwellings. But what other practicable solution are there? As you say  full detection may be of benefit for a slow burning fire if its the right type of smoke. But for a faster developing fire the time line may do something like this
Door open
Ignition
1.5 minutes detector operates in room of origin
2 minutes smoke fills ceiling area and starts to fill stair
2.5minutes smoke detector in staircase oprates
4-5 minutes landing filled with smoke and possibly flame from doorway of open room
Available safe evacuation time from detection- 3- 3.5 minutes

Door closed
Ignition
1.5 minutes detector operates in room of origin
2 minutes smoke fills ceiling area and wisps of smoke may start to pass round edge of doorleaf
4 minutes Fire grows within room effects contained by closed door, smoke detector operates in staircase
5- 10 fire growth starts to be limited as a result of oxygen starvation, substantial developed fire in room but very little radiated or convective heat entering staircase
10-15 minutes substantial volume of smoke in head of stair

Available safe evacuation time 12-15 minutes

Conclusion
Closed doors give a 400% increase in your chance of making a safe escape down the stairs without risk of injury.
All these timings are off the top of my head and are not substantiated but illustrate a point. After all 87.999876756433% of statistics are made up on the spur of the momnent.
But from observation it illustrates the point that nothing else performs anywhere near as well as a closed door......  apart from sprinklers???.

[Vishal]

All,

Sorry to go off on a tangent but i now need a solution for the fire door to segregate the dining room from the passageway. As i mentioned it is currently openplan with a large wooden solid archway between the dining room and the passageway where the stairs are situated. I have been told i will need to block off the dining room with a door. however, in keeping with the rest of the house, I want to retain the wooden archway as it is handmade and am therefore looking at solutions to overcome the compliance issue. any ideas? by the way, the rest of the fireproofing of the existing hand carved doors has been resolved by Envirograf. so many thanks for that.

[kurnal]

Vishal
Can you  leave the feature archway in place but infill the opening beneath it  with a similar fire resisting structure and door?

[Vishal]

Kurnal,

I think that is what I am going to have to do. It means that I lose the the light and the opening of the archway as it will have to be filled in and a single door installed. However, at least i get to keep the look of the Archway.

Vishal