Why blame the fire safety order?

[Chris Houston]

Baldy,

Perhaps we are going off topic, perhaps the discussion has moved on.

I find Jokar's comments very interesting due to my interest in risk management and insurance.  I'd like to know more about where the line is drawn, as while health and safety of fire fighters is obviously a legal and moral requirement (and I can't think of a time when this is more accute in our minds than now) there much be a balance struck between protecting their safety and doing the job of protecting public life safety and property.

Given your objection to me going off topic, I'll start up another thread on this issue, but I'll wait a little while as it might seem like an insensitive time to debate this matter just now when so many are mourning, upset and angry.

[Nearlybaldandgrey]

Chris,

I wasn't objecting at all ..... there are exclamation marks at the end of the first phrase of the post which I thought would be a sign of not being too serious about it ..... obviously wrong and it doesn't read as I intended having read it back, so apologies for that.

I too am extremely interested in the risk assessment process .... both for fire fighter safety and under the Order.

I have actively posted in the thread regarding dynamic risk assessment which was running in one of the areas and made some reasonable and valid points.

The DRA process will be an interesting debate as there are many views and opinions, as well as a lack of understanding in some areas and I look forward to it.

[slubberdegullion]

Think of the possible scenario:

The OIC is faced with an immense building with smoke issuing from somewhere far away.

There is a realisation that if nothing is done the fire is only going to grow and consume the whole building.

There is no apparent immediate threat from fire - though it is obvious that there is a large fire inside somewhere.

There might be people in there and you are now responsible for their safety - you are OIC of the incident after all.

Huge pressure to do something.

Logical conclusion, send in some teams to try to locate fire.  

It's either that or wait outside and watch it burn!

And we're not trained or personally inclined to do that.

What would you do?

Meanwhile the fire is growing exponentially.....

[Chris Houston]

Think of the possible scenario:

The OIC is faced with an immense building with smoke issuing from somewhere far away.

There is a realisation that if nothing is done the fire is only going to grow and consume the whole building.

There is no apparent immediate threat from fire - though it is obvious that there is a large fire inside somewhere.

There might be people in there and you are now responsible for their safety - you are OIC of the incident after all.

Huge pressure to do something.

Logical conclusion, send in some teams to try to locate fire.  

It's either that or wait outside and watch it burn!

And we're not trained or personally inclined to do that.

What would you do?

Meanwhile the fire is growing exponentially.....

I'm very glad that I don't have to make that call.  The public owe an immense gratitude to those who have to make those calls or act upon them.

[Midland Retty]

I just hope there is a fair enquiry.

All to often officers in charge come under the spotlight and are unfairly criticised for making decisions which can only be made by somene seeing what the prevailing conditions were at the time.

Whatever happened, be it a management failure, or a freak accident owing to something beyond anyone's control I feel we should not comment any further and respect the privacy of the firefighters families and indeed the commanders who sent the firefighters into the building.

They need time to get over what has happened.

[Chris Houston]

Whatever happened, be it a management failure, or a freak accident owing to something beyond anyone's control I feel we should not comment any further and respect the privacy of the firefighters families and indeed the commanders who sent the firefighters into the building.

A good point, well made.

I think we should all be very careful what we say given that there is an ongoing investigation.  

[CivvyFSO]

There's always the flip-side of the coin to consider: If the fire service had not entered the building, squirted a bit of water through the roof, and basically let it burn down without trying, then I am sure some people would be commenting on the lack of fire service intervention.