Poor service from an accredited company- what should I do?

[Psuedonym]

Re the Gauge Dots: As an experienced service engineer, I find the number of the original transparent dots installed by the manufacturer are often still left on the gauge under the dated stamped dot. So although the correctly dated dot may be in situ, the gauge hasn't actually been tested. Another very common shortfall not easily checked but one (of many) which I have no doubt you all have come across following service by "audited" and registered firms.
My personal practice is not to fit these dots as more often than not they obscure the gauge pressure needle (except in damp environments) - obviously not the clear ones, I don't recall these being part of BS either so my concience is clear, best practice et al.
My advise to clients is talk to your compatriots in your own trade and take their advice before employing fire service firms and don't employ commission based engineers. (Although unfortunately my current position is comm. & basic - athough this is going to be rectified with any luck, safety is my priority regardless of targets.)
As for poor service from an accreditied company - threaten publicity and see what their reaction is.

[kurnal]

Hi Pseudonym
Welcome to the forum. Is that your real name?

[Psuedonym]

Hi Pseudonym
Welcome to the forum. Is that your real name?

'Fraid so, bloody odd sense of humour up here in't North ;-)

[Davo]

Hi Sue (Can I call you that?)


Half my extinguishers don't have gauges, is there any other way of checking?
We also seem to be replacing a lot of our water extinguishers for AFFF, its a new contractor

fellow Northerner and ex eggchaser ( I got married!)
(NO offence intended, apologies)

[AnthonyB]

If they don't have gauges, then are cartridge type (or CO2). To check if these are properly checked you need to see them being serviced - the extinguisher should be stripped down, cartridge weighed,  mechanisms checked & interior examined.

If you can't manage this look for - old stagnant water (rotten eggs smell) and cartridges with a date of manufacture or refill over 5 years old - these show no internal examination.

With CO2's you have to trust them although you can check weigh yourself and check the stamped date to see if it required a hydro test/overhaul.

Unless your water's are unsafe through dents or internal corrosion they shouldn't be replaced with anything & can continue in service, even a 5 year extended service is a fraction of the cost of new kit. A lot of contractors put in 6 litre AFFF for waters on the basis of a smaller, lighter extinguisher with 35kV protection, but to be honest unless you have a class B risk I would rather use water additive as you can use a 3 litre extinguisher (even lighter & still with 35kV protection)

[John Dragon]

If they don't have gauges, then are cartridge type (or CO2). To check if these are properly checked you need to see them being serviced - the extinguisher should be stripped down, cartridge weighed,  mechanisms checked & interior examined.

If you can't manage this look for - old stagnant water (rotten eggs smell) and cartridges with a date of manufacture or refill over 5 years old - these show no internal examination.

With CO2's you have to trust them although you can check weigh yourself and check the stamped date to see if it required a hydro test/overhaul.

Unless your water's are unsafe through dents or internal corrosion they shouldn't be replaced with anything & can continue in service, even a 5 year extended service is a fraction of the cost of new kit. A lot of contractors put in 6 litre AFFF for waters on the basis of a smaller, lighter extinguisher with 35kV protection, but to be honest unless you have a class B risk I would rather use water additive as you can use a 3 litre extinguisher (even lighter & still with 35kV protection)

An issue that is going to get larger in the near future is the disposal of AFFF.
As regards price, there are now very few british made extinguishers, most manufacturers have moved production elsewhere (Guess where?), and prices have tumbled in the last 12 months or so.

[AnthonyB]

True, we don't test discharge on site & do a service exchange to avoid upsetting the Environment Agency.

90% of extinguishers are from China or Malaysia (including all Chubb/TG kit and some stuff from the uber-expensive European Fire Group of Nu Swift et al)

Only Amerex, Gloria, Total & FPS are US/German/British made throughout and UK Fire's expensive Britannia Range is (by a strange coincidence we do safety checks for the landlord of the industrial estate that has a foundry on it that makes their headcaps)

The price has dropped so much it is the same price for us to exchange an empty/due 5 year test Powder extinguisher for a brand new one instead of messing around filling it! Not very Eco-Friendly!

[John Dragon]

I can't remember the last time we sold an Amerex extinguisher - they've priced themselves out of the market now.
We don't sell it, but where is the "lovely" Moyne Roberts kit made? still Ireland?
Still some of the Chinese stuff makes MR look good!

[Psuedonym]

I can't remember the last time we sold an Amerex extinguisher - they've priced themselves out of the market now.
We don't sell it, but where is the "lovely" Moyne Roberts kit made? still Ireland?
Still some of the Chinese stuff makes MR look good!

The MR kit is assembled in Red Scar Ind Est, Preston (Hose Reel bodies's physically pressed not manufactured, over the water, with the powders bodies also filled in the same factory, however MR do not manufacture kit, only assemble. Then claim it to be British made. The bodies are shipped in from the Far East, in containers which have been sat on the ships deck and travelled around half the world. On the ships deck. Literally. Then filled with fire protectiion medium and sold to unsuspecting customers who trust the BS system. As for their pressure gauges..........no comment.
Personally I think all other kit looks and performs better then MR's! I'm sure we all have a nightmare story or two regarding this kit!

I agree with you regarding the Amerex kit; too costly. Excellent kit but just to many cheaper alternatives available when customer purchase price is paramount which is unfortunately, as we all know , the most important factor these days.

er.. Personal Views Only!

[Psuedonym]

Hi Sue (Can I call you that?)


Half my extinguishers don't have gauges, is there any other way of checking?
We also seem to be replacing a lot of our water extinguishers for AFFF, its a new contractor

fellow Northerner and ex eggchaser ( I got married!)
(NO offence intended, apologies)

Hi Davo,
As an end user I wouldn't advise you try to check the pressure of the extinguishers ( - is that what you refered too? - see the following posts from your original post) if you are refering to a service provider, talk to fellow maintenance personell from other sites. They should be able to advise you on a decent company. The guys on this site are intelligent and honest, so if there are any in your area...
(I will be honest and not advice the Co. I work for, as we are basic & comm based - not ideal "but beggers can't be choosers" etc)

AFFF are becoming more common as a multiple use unit (Class A & B) and as a spray unit they are safe for use within the vicinity of an electrical contact. They are commonly smaller too (9Lt Water 14Kg (13A) as apposed to 6Lt AFFF (10Kg) 13A therefore lighter too) when compared with the "old" 9Lt Water. It's down to many factors but adequate fire risk cover must always be the paramount issue above all else. (Coupled with adequate training) So your supplier must inform you of any changes to types or sizes and give their reasons why too.
If you have no confidence or communication from them, get rid and employ someone you trust.

Oh, no not Sue, my missus would only get confused! Phil will do!

[David Rooney]

Heading back to the original question......... If they are BAFE and ISO then they must have a proper auditable complaints procedure. I would ask for the complaint to be recorded and investigated by the firm and for a copy of their findings..... Then go to the NSI with the evidence if you aren't satisfied.

The problem with ISO accreditation under the BAFE scheme (and we have just had the consultant in putting our forms together...) is that the scheme isn't any where near as "demanding" as you might think, and there is lots of room to take shortcuts and hide things from the auditers....