3 bed b&b

[andybayes]

Hi
I found this site while trying to find some info on fire risk assessment for our small b&b, I've read the previous topics on 6 bed b&bs and larger and thought that a simple single story 3 bed b&b would be simple, but the truth is that everywhere that my partner & I look we find risks and I think that we are now mabe going over the top.
This is what we've come up with.

All bedrooms are on the 1st floor and the escape is on to a narrow landing then stairway (850mm wide) with a banister on each side. Also opening on to the landing are 2 bathrooms. At the bottom of the stairs is a lobby with doors to the dinning room and our bedroom on either side and straight on to the front door.

After doing our own FRA I think we need a domestic interlinked smoke detector in each bedroom and the dining room, the doors to the bedrooms and the dinning room need to be 1/2 hour fire rated and emergency lighting will needed to be installed on the stairs.

This seems straightforward to me after spending the last couple of weeks studying your site, but when we talk to other B&B owners they think there is no need for all this and indeed one that we spoke to that is similar to ours has done none of the above and was only inspected last week (by the tourist board) and when asked about fire warning told the inspector that she would shout FIRE FIRE and this satisfied the inspector.

Our main concern is the fire doors as it is an 150 year old cottage and the doors are non standard and would be an arm and a leg to replace, I think they are to old and knocked about to make fire proof. Also would the 2 bathroom doors need to be fire rated? I do not think there is a very high risk of a fire starting in these rooms.

Thanks

andybayes

[kurnal]

After doing our own FRA I think we need a domestic interlinked smoke detector in each bedroom and the dining room, the doors to the bedrooms and the dinning room need to be 1/2 hour fire rated and emergency lighting will needed to be installed on the stairs.

I agree with everything you say. It need not be too expensive- take a look at the site sponsors site. I would also check furnishings are up to the 1988/1993 regs (match test labels displayed) and electrical (5 yrs)  and gas(1 yr)  inspections up to date. PAT testing is also a good idea. Fire doors are not too expensive - you get what you pay for but prices start at £30 for a fire door blank, plus seals, 3 hinges, and self closer. If the frames are cream crackered then a doorset (Leaf and frame) is the answer

This seems straightforward to me after spending the last couple of weeks studying your site, but when we talk to other B&B owners they think there is no need for all this and indeed one that we spoke to that is similar to ours has done none of the above and was only inspected last week (by the tourist board) and when asked about fire warning told the inspector that she would shout FIRE FIRE and this satisfied the inspector..

Only one of you is doing it right. The inspector is way out of line if that was the advice given. Yes you can get away with it - but small B&Bs will be now  inspected by the fire service and you probably want a clear conscience as you take peoples money.
Very best of luck with your venture.

[The Colonel]

How the heck can a tourist board inspector say the shouting fire is ok, what is going to wake to owner at night so that they can call the guests. Its a shame that there is no written evedence of his advice as I for one would like to show him up for the idiot that he is, its other poeples lives he is prepared to risk with no come back on him.

Kurnal gives sound advice on this forum but my priority would be to get your smoke alarms in first so that you and your guests have early warning of anything happening and can escape in time. If you can improve the door/frames by simple means such as a good carpenter that will help to restrict smoke travel into the escape routes, the detection should have alerted you before it gets to bad, also fit self closing devices at about £20-25 each.

Some lighting would be good on the escape routes, have a look at other threads on this site as you have found out there is some good advice here.

At least when you go to bed at night you should be able to sleep easy knowing that you are doing all that is reasonable in the circumstances, where as your fellow B&B owners may not only put thier guests lives in danger but also thier own, dont be guided by others penny pinching and it wont happen here atitude because it will happen.

Some friends of mine that are fire service officers are activly targeting B&B and small establishments who have been outside of the fire safety rules until the RRO came in

[CivvyFSO]

Good answers.

Just to put another slant on it: (Just hear me out before you all start putting your "All FSO's are b*****ds" hats on.)

As an inspector, I would not accept verbal alarm in any sleeping risk no matter how small. Coupled with the lack of decent fire doors it could be a major failing of the following aspects of the legislation:

{Jack boots on}
Article 8: General fire precautions
Article 9: Risk assessment. (You might have one, I would challenge its suitablility as a suitable risk assessment should have led to detection being fitted and fire doors being fitted.)
Article 10: Principles of prevention. (You haven't avoided risks or adapted to technical progress)
Article 11: Fire safety arrangements. (There is a question about the whole management of fire safety. If you can explain how you are complying with this article then you might sway my judgement)
Article 13: Fire detection. (Clearly there is none that is suitable)
Article 14: Emergency routes and exits. (Lack of fire doors protecting escape route) (also, do you have emergency lighting?)

6 potential non-compliances, with at least another 7 applicable articles which I doubt you would be attaining "complaint" on.

As mean as this seems, the point being that even though you might just think you are not complying with 1 or 2 articles of the legislation, it opens up a whole can of worms. Basically in a sleeping risk you are looking at the 2 main articles that can make a huge difference between life and death, and as such it creates 2 seperate "proper" offences with just those 2 articles not being complied with.

So I think the worst case scenario for you would be, a visit by a very thorough officer. He would realise the potential of the offences straight away. A full audit would probably lead to an enforcement notice for all the non complaint articles, and the beginnings of a prosecution would be started for the offences linked to articles 13 and 14 with the other articles being used to support this where it can be proved that they contribute to putting relevant persons in danger.

As bad as this may seem it is possible this could achieve a bigger objective. i.e. All the other B&B's in the area will sit up and take notice, and get themselves on track because they do not want to go through what you have.

{/Jack boots off}

I am hoping I have not come off as too severe, but for "self complaint" legislation to work we (The FRS) need to be seen as being proactive in enforcing it, and the 'punters' need to know we mean business, otherwise they will sit around and wait for us to come and put it right for them.

My 'more friendly' advice would be to get an alarm system fitted and a proper risk assessment done. That would be a reasonable starting point.