An interesting means of escape from large 'Garden Shed'

[John Webb]

The picture below was taken today during the national 'Heritage Open Days' at St Albans South Signal box which I've been helping to restore over the last two years.



For those of you unfamiliar with such buildings, they were constructed from a standard range of prefabricated wood panels, hence my reference to a 'large Garden Shed'!

English Heritage, as part of the Listed Building consent insisted we use intumescent paint for the interior, and we have interlinked fire detectors upstairs and down to raise the alarm automatically. Otherwise it's a case of shouting 'Fire' and ushering everyone out (max travel distance 42ft to open air).

Oh yes, we had around 1075 visitors over the two days, compared to 417 last year, so we were rather busy!

[Izan FSO]

And of course John that door underneath the external escape is an FD30sSC door isn't it because its within 1.8m or 9m vertically of the escape stair..........thats what it says in the guide so COME ON none of this risk assesment rubbish!!!!!

sorry sorry I went into inspecting officer mode then!

[nearlythere]

The picture below was taken today during the national 'Heritage Open Days' at St Albans South Signal box which I've been helping to restore over the last two years.

http://img3014.photobox.co.uk/44892318693e7c8344d92a4ff0dee8463a7d856fbf9c35ac6efabc52ecccd61d6579897a.jpg

For those of you unfamiliar with such buildings, they were constructed from a standard range of prefabricated wood panels, hence my reference to a 'large Garden Shed'!

English Heritage, as part of the Listed Building consent insisted we use intumescent paint for the interior, and we have interlinked fire detectors upstairs and down to raise the alarm automatically. Otherwise it's a case of shouting 'Fire' and ushering everyone out (max travel distance 42ft to open air).

Oh yes, we had around 1075 visitors over the two days, compared to 417 last year, so we were rather busy!

As a matter of interest what is in the ground floor room that could be considered a risk to those using the stairway? Presumably the ignition sources and fire load in this area are negligible.
The requirement for intumescent paint and detection shows quite plainly that EH have little to no understanding of fire risk.

[kurnal]

Did you not seek any clarification on the need for the paint John? And what role it was expected to perform?


Ah. the cause of "spark from passing steam locomotive" is not dead and buried yet!

[John Webb]

Did you not seek any clarification on the need for the paint John? And what role it was expected to perform?

Ah. the cause of "spark from passing steam locomotive" is not dead and buried yet!

They'd been told to use the paint before I joined the Building Trust restoring the building so I had no say in the matter. And we do get the occasional steam loco passing on special trains, although the last two were cancelled for various reasons.

As a matter of interest what is in the ground floor room that could be considered a risk to those using the stairway? Presumably the ignition sources and fire load in this area are negligible.

At the moment, not a great deal. There is a sort of 'foyer' with the new toilet, electrical intake and distribution board and a quantity of ironmongery connected to the signal levers:



and a meeting room:


Seen here just prior to the lovely white intumescent paint being applied over the local vandals' earlier efforts. This will be used for trust meetings, chats to visitors and the display of various signalling objects. There will be electrical equipment in use, but the whole place was rewired with the old galvanised conduit being extended with new ditto - the Sparks said it was the first time in 30 years he'd been asked to do it that way!

[nearlythere]

I would suggest that EH have insisted on intumescant paint as a property protection measure.
You said that "we have interlinked detectors..........."  Did it ask for the interlinked detectors and if so for what reason?

[John Webb]

I would suggest that EH have insisted on intumescant paint as a property protection measure.
You said that "we have interlinked detectors..........."  Did it ask for the interlinked detectors and if so for what reason?

I did get the impression when I asked about the intumescent paint on first joining the Trust that it was more a property protection measure. And it was EH who asked for the interlinked detectors which are BS5839 Part 6 models rather than a full commercial panel-based system. But not having seen the correspondence with EH I don't know the full details.

[Midland Retty]

HI John

In the past I have dealt with both National Trust and EH premises. My experience is that both organisations recommend / insist on intumescent paint purely for property protection reasons.

Im guessing they are more concerned about the possibility of vadalism / arson than anything in the building itself actually being a source of ignition.

I'm a little Confuddled by the interlinked detection however. Bizzare. Having early warning is always a good thing but surely not required here even if public will be visiting. Requested in erro perhaps?

Or again could the thinking be that if someone is in the building to hear the alarms activate they will hopefully contact the fire service immediately, thus ensuring early intervention by fire crews and therefore more chance of saving the building perhaps?

[nearlythere]

HI John

In the past I have dealt with both National Trust and EH premises. My experience is that both organisations recommend / insist on intumescent paint purely for property protection reasons.

Im guessing they are more concerned about the possibility of vadalism / arson than anything in the building itself actually being a source of ignition.

I'm a little Confuddled by the interlinked detection however. Bizzare. Having early warning is always a good thing but surely not required here even if public will be visiting. Requested in erro perhaps?

Or again could the thinking be that if someone is in the building to hear the alarms activate they will hopefully contact the fire service immediately, thus ensuring early intervention by fire crews and therefore more chance of saving the building perhaps?

That was my thinking too MR. Of course at night time there may not be many about to hear alarm. Not quite sure why detection provided in such a small property. Maybe they have a general policy which prevents assessing the risk or value of some measures. Would EH be looking at it for MOE from top floor?

[Midland Retty]

Indeed NT

As you point out I can't see the benefit of AFD to protect persons on top floor. For property protection purposes  AFD wont help if the building is unattended or it isn't linked to a monitoring centre.