Author Topic: Homophobic firefighters???  (Read 17354 times)

Chris Houston

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Homophobic firefighters???
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2007, 07:50:30 PM »
Pugh,

Again, I don't wish to get into a legal debate about this, but there are plenty of arguable points about what counts as public and private and what acctually occured.  To get to the bottom of this ( ;) ) we would need to compare case law etc etc, and unless either of us were CPS experts, I don't think we can state with authority what is lawful and what is not....

Offline pugh

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Homophobic firefighters???
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2007, 11:56:10 AM »
Chris,

I don't wish to labour the legal point but there were four men involved and the law is quite clear, i.e. An act of buggery by one man with another shall NOT be treated as taking place in private if it takes place when more than two persons take part or are present.

The FBU representation for the accused was not up to the required standard, in fact is was down to the expected standard for a case of this nature.

The political isues were allowed to take centre stage and the core issue of the actual transgression used as an excuse to make an example of the firefighters and to show how 'in touch' the FA is.

The four were suspended for three months.  What a waste of valuable resources.  I wonder if the council tax payers of Avon are happy with that?

Two were fined 1000 pounds, one demoted and the fourth has a letter of reprimand.  They have also been shifted to other stations within Avon FB.  In addition, all must attend workshops on equality and also attend the conference being held in Bristol, entitled 'Lesbians, Gays, Bi-sexuals and Transgender Equality in the Fire Service - an absolute taboo?’

I have no issues with Gay people and would be more than happy to have them on any watch I served on and would make every effort to see that fairness and equality were observed in all activities.  I do have strong feelings on the politicisation of this and how the firefighters have been made scapegoats and hung out to dry by management and the Union.

The whole thing is a complete farce and an absolute disgrace.

Offline fireftrm

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Homophobic firefighters???
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2007, 12:35:06 PM »
I won't labour the legal point either, except to say that it is categorically not an offence to have sex in public. Also there is no offence of male buggery at all. The law sections you refer to were repealed by the Sexual Offences Act 2003. The only offence that can be committed is a public order offence of causing distress or harm to someone by them seeing you, or is under the SO Act 2003 if the person intends that someone will see them and be caused alarm or distress. This applies to whatever sex the participants are. The Ffs did not make a complaint of being harmed by what they saw so no offence had taken place. The punishment by Avon was certainly over the top, but if Ffs do decide to act in such a manner, from what has been written in the press they went there deliberately, then they needed some form of discipline.
My posts reflect my personal views and beliefs and not those of my employer. If I offend anyone it is usually unintentional, please be kind. If it is intentional I guess it will be clear!

Offline kurnal

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Homophobic firefighters???
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2007, 02:26:54 PM »
Quote from: fireftrm
The punishment by Avon was certainly over the top, but if Ffs do decide to act in such a manner, from what has been written in the press they went there deliberately, then they needed some form of discipline.
I fully agree with you.

I feel very uneasy about requiring an individual to attend a minority group event as part of a punishment though. And unclear about who would potentially gain from their attendance in such circumstances. Especially in view of the publicity in the press - in my view this leaves the individuals wide open to harassment and is more likely to reinfoce any negative perceptions they may or may not hold. As for the donation of a fine to a "worthy cause" - further reinforcing and focussing ill feeling towards the minority group in question. For me if this is progress then bring back the old discipline regs, at least the "awards" were predetermined and not subject to abuse.

These punishments appear to me to be ill judged and a shot in the foot for the interests of diversity and equality.

Offline toidi

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Homophobic firefighters???
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2007, 09:28:19 PM »
Again- it appears us Scots are different from our neighbours down south as I cannot imagine "homophobic" Firefighters going to a known site where gays  frequent and shine a torch on them so they can see them.

Chris Houston

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Homophobic firefighters???
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2007, 09:32:24 PM »
This whole incident sounds very odd to me, which is why I am avoiding guessing what happened.  I don't think, however, that this is anything to do with nationality.

Offline toidi

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Homophobic firefighters???
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2007, 10:32:21 PM »
Chris

That is exactly my point with regards to nationality as if you are Homophobic, you are Homophobic, irrespective of where you are in the World, and in Scotland I cannot imagine Homophobic people going to a known gay haunt and shining torches on Gays performing sexual acts.

a different scenario to the same situation would be if the Crew had held there hands up and said they know they shouldn't have been there but whilst they were, they became deeply offended by witnessing a sex act between 4 gays in a public place.

This has traumatised them so much that they were unable to continue operational duties and  have all went off with stress. They have contacted the police as this sex in a public place deeply offends them and whilst they admit they should not have been there, they feel they had no option as public servants but to report a criminal act.

I doubt if this scenario would include anything other than a reprimand to the OIC for misuse of an appliance and equipment, which is the exact same offence they were all accused of in the first place!!

Chris Houston

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Homophobic firefighters???
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2007, 10:53:05 PM »
Yes, and I can't imagine it happening in England either, so again I can't see the locaiton (Scotland or England) being relevant to this debate.  At risk of sounding like a stuck record, I don't think any of us can speak with authority about what actually happened.

Offline kurnal

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Homophobic firefighters???
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2008, 08:30:40 AM »
Heres a new twist on this thread.

http://www.matlockmercury.co.uk/news/NHS-help-at-sex-pest.4011951.jp

The worlds gone mad. The Health service sees their action as good work preventing STDs. The Local Community see it as spending our taxes  encouraging the pests  who have made these beautiful picnic sites no go areas for ordinary law abiding folk.

I suggest that the Police should give burglars guns to defend themselves with  whilst they steal from us.

Chris Houston

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Homophobic firefighters???
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2008, 09:17:40 AM »
Am I missing out?  Last time I went for a picnic there was no sex to be seen!

Offline wee brian

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Homophobic firefighters???
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2008, 09:30:50 AM »
Now I understand - those firefighters werent taking the mickey - they were doing Community Safety Checks.

Much better to bonk in the woods by spotlight than risk starting a fire with a candle.

Offline devon4ever

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Homophobic firefighters???
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2008, 11:57:09 AM »
Ive been on one of those Equality & Diversity thingy's and when asked if anyone was Homophobic, I replied "Who on earth would be scared of their home?"

Clearly it wasn't considered big nor clever!
(The Stig is my next door neighbour!)

Midland Retty

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Homophobic firefighters???
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2008, 12:07:56 PM »
Oh the old ones are the best!